Posture question
- Thread starter Bigwill
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Perfect Impact
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It could make it HARDER to get the right shoulder "on plane" as concerns THEIR relationship to the spine and hips. I.e., rotation (right to left) of the upper body is not powered as much as VERTICAL movement of the shoulders because of a SIDEways movement of the hips.
Here is a comparison to consider: stand next to a tree and try to push it sideways by rotation: with your right hand on the trunk: turn your body and see how "hard you can push."
Now, stand with your right hand hanging down under your armpit. With your LEGS move your hips to the left and your right shoulder down. The legs are the source of the power delivered to the right shoulder.
Which is stronger? your ability to push the tree with horizontal torsion, or the strength of your legs moving your shoulders up and down. While they don't move far, neither does the axle of a Ferris wheel move far, while the rim (where the seats are, near the perimiter) moves a great deal further than the axle moves.
Here is a comparison to consider: stand next to a tree and try to push it sideways by rotation: with your right hand on the trunk: turn your body and see how "hard you can push."
Now, stand with your right hand hanging down under your armpit. With your LEGS move your hips to the left and your right shoulder down. The legs are the source of the power delivered to the right shoulder.
Which is stronger? your ability to push the tree with horizontal torsion, or the strength of your legs moving your shoulders up and down. While they don't move far, neither does the axle of a Ferris wheel move far, while the rim (where the seats are, near the perimiter) moves a great deal further than the axle moves.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Bigwill said:
Easier.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
mrodock said:
Yes.
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
Bigwill seems to already have the answers to his questions...lol.
Your correct mr will. You are talking about me. I subscribe to a bit more bent over posture so i don't have to tilt so much in the downswing.
My backswing "turn" looks 90* to my spine it is not a completely flat backstroke shoulder turn but it isn't as steep as a rotated shoulder turn either.
Your correct mr will. You are talking about me. I subscribe to a bit more bent over posture so i don't have to tilt so much in the downswing.
My backswing "turn" looks 90* to my spine it is not a completely flat backstroke shoulder turn but it isn't as steep as a rotated shoulder turn either.
Perfect Impact
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IMO it is not easier to PIVOT when you are bent over, and by pivot I am including the turn of the hips. THAT is compromised by a severe forward bend of the spine.
Perfect Impact
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The smaller the angle between spine and legs, the harder it is to turn your hips to the left. They "get stuck." More than when you are standing erect.
This is self evident once you actually make the comparison yourself.
Do that: stand erect with your feet not far apart and your left toe open. See how absolutely simple it is to rotate your hips through a large amplitude while at the same time it is easier to keep your shoulders from turning early.
Then stand with your spine very far forward (by going to the extreme, it is easier to realize the limitation it creates): now with the same position of your legs as before, turn your hips. In this position your SHOULDERS TURN MUCH SOONER. So a bent over posture forces the wrong shoulder out-at-the-target-line movement which is not on plane with the movement required for a ball on the ground.
This is self evident once you actually make the comparison yourself.
Do that: stand erect with your feet not far apart and your left toe open. See how absolutely simple it is to rotate your hips through a large amplitude while at the same time it is easier to keep your shoulders from turning early.
Then stand with your spine very far forward (by going to the extreme, it is easier to realize the limitation it creates): now with the same position of your legs as before, turn your hips. In this position your SHOULDERS TURN MUCH SOONER. So a bent over posture forces the wrong shoulder out-at-the-target-line movement which is not on plane with the movement required for a ball on the ground.
Perfect Impact said:
sorry, but i disagree (and i did "actually make the comparison" for myself before i replied, hence the question.)...i don't think the "SHOULDERS TURN MUCH SOONER", they just turn on a different plane/angle...IM(H)O, being somewhat bent over (i don't think anyone is advocating "severe" or "extreme") allows you to start in the advantageous "neck level" position brian has described elsewhere instead of having to "get to it" from a more upright start and also has the other effects he described above...
-hcw
Perfect Impact
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A lot of the issue has to do with one's range of motion. I do get feedback from what occurs during lessons, and other than that from many others reading of it, that the more erect posture makes their swing MUCH EASIER.
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
Perfect Impact said:
Not quite sure what you mean but this is the "gist" of it:
The more you bend from the hips the less hip slide you will have and the less axis tilt you will need to get the right shoulder downplane.
The less you bend from the hips the more hip slide you will have and the more axis tilt you will need to get the right shoulder downplane.
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One is not better than the other, figure out which is easier for you to perform and do it.
I've been to the range since working on a more bent over posture and found that, personally, it's been easier to rotate my hips with a more bent over posture, without opening my shoulders up. I'm not built like your average golfer, though, so maybe that's why it works better for me. One thing that I can say is that it has improved my balance tremendously.
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