Power Accumulators - Plain english only!!

[Brian Manzella]

Homer said:

Power Accumulation is the process of LOADING Power Accumulators during their Out-of-Line Configuration.

Brian's translation:

Power Accumulator- an out-of-line condition that produces power when it is being released to in-line. There are four relevant ones in a golf stroke.

Power Accumulation - The STORING [or BUILD-UP] (Webster definition that fits for Accumulation) of this power which BEGINS at the point that Homer calls LOADING.

Brian's REAL WORLD experience:

There is POTENTIAL power in all four Power Accumulators. Sometimes the force is greater when the release is delayed, sometimes not.

BUT!!!! When a 150lb., never played baseball, MikeSTLOC throws a golf ball 100+ yards in the air! His right arm (a Power Accumulator) is Snap Assembled, Snap Loaded, Big-Time deleayed, WAY out-of-line, elbow out-in-front, stored forever and SNAP released.

Also, one of the longest hitting golfers we ever saw was an ex-pro baseball 95+mph pitcher (with no control) who hit it 350 in the air with very little out-of-line storage, but lots of speed anyway.

This whole debate is very silly, IMO.

 

[TGMfan]

Brian,

I think mandrin's argument is summed up in his statement that "There is no such force field and hence the potential energy at the top of the back swing for all practical purposes is zero". A more accurate way of looking at potential energy is to say that it's equal to the amount of work needed to change the position or configuration of an object.

A ball in a zero-gravity spaceship doesn't have any potential energy because it requires no work to pick it up and hold it over your head. Introduce gravity, or simulate it by spinning the spaceship, and you increase the work required (and the potential energy). Push on a spring to change its configuration and its potential energy is equal to the work you put into the push. The question then becomes whether work is required to lift a golf club (position) and move it from in-line to out-of-line (configuration).

Part of the answer to that question is whether it takes work to cock your wrist. I suspect that it does (even ignoring gravity) since you're stretching the muscle(s) on the outside of your forearm. Include the stretching of the muscles on your left side as you bring your arm across your chest, etc., and there's quite a bit of work involved in getting the club to the top. That work gives us an equal amount of potential energy - certainly more than "practically zero".

 

[MizunoJoe]

Here's a little background on mandrin. He's a regular on the SA forum, who only occasionally posts. He likes to piddle around with the golf swing, but is mainly interested in modeling it mathematically - and that's fine, it's a free country(sort of). His only peer on the forum is the moderator, who believes wholeheartedly in the Bertholy Method. These two are carefully deferential to one another, while the others on the forum are of lessor stature, know their place, and are properly respectful of them and their ideas. The moderator believes that TGM has errors and gaps.

mandrin stormed over here behind a flying wedge of differential equations. The intended effect was that of the "Shock and Awe" of the US Military. The goal was to topple Homer from power and inject us with "mandrin precision". He underestimated the TGM insurgency.

 

[6bee1dee]

I enjoy reading and posting on the SA forum under very select topics. The moderator, Peter does have a problem with TGM. I don't think many of them actually play golf or at least not well. Many seem so lost. There are a few cross posters over there from other TGM forums.


And I will stand with my original post.

 

[FL-John]

I'm all for someone coming into to play "Point and Counter Point". I just love the so-called scholars like Mandrin (not to pick on him) that drop some of their findings or theories....they dismiss TGM and/or others like it makes no sense yet theirs is the greatest invention since white bread....oooossshhh!

FL-John

 

[corky05]

What's silly is so guy coming out of nowhere and dropping a foot long mathematical equation in front of your nose and expecting everybody to roll over and play dead. He can take that sheezy right back to the Pocket Protector Society. Imposter.

 

[mandrin]

Some seem to have a lot of fun doing the traditional science bashing. I respect that, each and everyone is trying to amuse himself as he is capable of and sees fit.

I get a great kick of out of these type these posts, trying to estimate the mental age of the authors, wondering if it reaches double digits. It just seems so much like a bunch of kids getting overly excited.

I would suggest taking example on Brian, I respect his moderation, yet he has quite a temper, and he has a business interest in golf not in science or mathematics.

mandrin

 

[diggerdog]

I understand he has a very poor golf stroke. Which is why he is lurking around here in the first place. I feel he is very close to a breakthrough. Let's show some forebearance. I swear at least once a week I sincerely think TGM and TGMer's are a bunch of bunk. Really, and that I am going to abandon the system, and break out some old books and videos, but the seed has been planted too deep. Just one little power chip of a bent right wrist through and past impact, and back I come, my tail between my legs.

 

[FL-John]

Mandrin:

I am all for learning some more science and Math, especially since my college studies didn't take too well (LOL). Anyway, I cannot speak for everyone, but am more than happy to apply a new science (if correct) to better my golf swing and/or general knowledge.

Please feel free to keep posting and helping us all to learn. As Brian once said, "I love to debate, for if I'm wrong, I have learned something new." paraphase of course.....anyway, keep the posts coming. Most here have a passion for TGM and/or admire the teachings of Brian and the musings of others. I'm sure some of your posts (as do all of ours) may be seen as TGM bashing OR disproving Homer's work....that said, I'm sure it would be the same if a bunch of us went to the Single Axis forums and tried to push TGM onto them.

We are all hear to absorb the teachings of TGM, as well as others, yet are quite lively with our debates.

That said, keep em' coming.

FL-John

 

[corky05]

Really guys, Mandrin has no apparent agenda, he's in it for the love of math. You know, I can't even say that with a straight face.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Why did mandrin not answer my post?

I put some simple stuff in there.

And as far as smart goes, Mr. Mandrin...wanna take a IQ test against me for some cash?

 

[fdb2]

quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

Here's a little background on mandrin. He's a regular on the SA forum, who only occasionally posts. He likes to piddle around with the golf swing, but is mainly interested in modeling it mathematically - and that's fine, it's a free country(sort of). His only peer on the forum is the moderator, who believes wholeheartedly in the Bertholy Method. These two are carefully deferential to one another, while the others on the forum are of lessor stature, know their place, and are properly respectful of them and their ideas. The moderator believes that TGM has errors and gaps.

mandrin stormed over here behind a flying wedge of differential equations. The intended effect was that of the "Shock and Awe" of the US Military. The goal was to topple Homer from power and inject us with "mandrin precision". He underestimated the TGM insurgency.

Miz. J


As a postscript. He has never divulged his academic credentials, submitted his "research" for "peer" review, and most of his equations can be found in Corcorhan"s ( sp?) book on the physics of the golf swing and on a website dealing out esoteric research from academia regarding the physics of the swing. Having gone through quantum mechanics courses in grad school I'll would have to say there is really nothing original in his work.

 

[6bee1dee]

from SA:

Mandrin under attack
December 7 2004 at 3:23 PM dognut (Login dognut)
SAGF 2003

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mandrin has made a post over at Manzella's golf forum that went over like a fart in church. He is being pummelled.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Let me say this about the post.

Make a point!

Say trigger delay doesn't matter or make you hit it shorter or REAL power comes from your butt muscles, but PLEASE!!!! not all of that esoteric junk science.

Mac O'Grady gave a similar speech at the PGA Summit in 1992 in San Francisco. I was (as always) sitting next to Ben Doyle. Ben is thought to be TOO COMPLEX (BS) but even he has his limits. At one point of Mac's "which neurons fire at takeaway in the brain" Ben said:

"It's not that complex."

 

[Ringer]

Brian.. he already made his point. A long time ago. But as typical instead of reason and thoughfulness being the prevailing wind, we have cynicism and beratement of a tresspasser on your lands. You are not almighty Brian, so remove the stick or the high horse.. whichever one it is you are sitting on.

 

[MizunoJoe]

Ringer,

Yes, he made his "point". The REAL point is that he knows few, if any, understand those differential equations, so his posting them served NO PURPOSE other than to impress us with his intellect, and was NOT done to give us useful information about the golf swing. He tells us we need to "read, read, read". I.e., we need to lift ourselves up to his technical level, at which point he will discredit Homer and TGM, and then we will be ready to receive his "truth" and we will all FINALLY be able to compress the living schict out of the ball. In mandrin's kingdom, you must become a dentist in order to properly brush your teeth.

 

[corky05]

Ringer, Armed with the club throwing drills and mathematical equations, you're gonna be dangerous on that practice tee! You ever think about starting a Junior clinic? Just what we need, a bunch of club throwing math geniouses.
I remember Vijay tossing his Clevelands and running over to his calculator at the PGA in Kohler, Wisconsin. I was reading Golfweek July edition, he said he could not have toppled Tiger if it weren't for his Hewlett Packard!

 

[Ringer]

quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

Ringer,

Yes, he made his "point". The REAL point is that he knows few, if any, understand those differential equations, so his posting them served NO PURPOSE other than to impress us with his intellect, and was NOT done to give us useful information about the golf swing. He tells us we need to "read, read, read". I.e., we need to lift ourselves up to his technical level, at which point he will discredit Homer and TGM, and then we will be ready to receive his "truth" and we will all FINALLY be able to compress the living schict out of the ball. In mandrin's kingdom, you must become a dentist in order to properly brush your teeth.

I made the analogy once about Einsteins theory of relativity topling Newton's theory of gravity. I don't think a single one of you would dare argue that Newton was right, while Einstein was wrong. Yet very few of us actually understand the equations Einstein put forth. Do you not see a parallel situation here? Do we still not think in terms of Newtonian theory of gravity? As wrong as it is, and we KNOW it is.. we still use the calculations to figure speeds of falling objects and such. You can still BELIEVE in Homer's theory, but to ridicule mandins post because it's above your head, does little to stablize Homer's position. Yet we can still think of it in terms of TGM, even if they are wrong... they can still work.

 

[Ringer]

quote:Originally posted by corky05

Ringer, Armed with the club throwing drills and mathematical equations, you're gonna be dangerous on that practice tee! You ever think about starting a Junior clinic? Just what we need, a bunch of club throwing math geniouses.
I remember Vijay tossing his Clevelands and running over to his calculator at the PGA in Kohler, Wisconsin. I was reading Golfweek July edition, he said he could not have toppled Tiger if it weren't for his Hewlett Packard!

I'm sorry, did you have something important to say, or were you just talking out your ass again?

 

[corky05]

If don't think asking Mandrin questions about his position is ridicule. There were valid questions posed. He got quiet or deferred, but never addressed them. Couple that with his unique intro and it has some people a little dubious.
That doesn't mean some people won't embrace it? There's one born everyday, Ringer. It will fit right into your repertoire. Sorry, I don't do winky eyes, just sarcasm.