Push hook vs pull hook, etc...can someone clarify the d-plane 'rules'?

[tomwatson1000]

New here...learning a lot. Can someone verify the following and/or elaborate:

A push hook is going to be an inside out swing path with a club face that is "relatively" closed to the swing path but open to the intended target/ball line.

A pull hook could be the same inside out swing with a club face closed to the target/ball line.

A push fade is likely an inside out swing path with a face more open than the swing path.

A straight push would be an inside out swing where the club face is square to the path (but open to the original intended target/ball line). And a straight pull the exact opposite.

Are these over simplifications? Or possibly just wrong? Club face is 75-85% of initial ball flight, right? Are there situations where thats not true? How do all of these "new rules" change with short irons vs long clubs?

I suppose a pull hook could also be a "square" (inside to inside) swing path with a closed face? And also outside in swing path with an even more closed clubface?

Thanks

 

[ggsjpc]

New here...learning a lot. Can someone verify the following and/or elaborate:

A push hook is going to be an inside out swing path with a club face that is "relatively" closed to the swing path but open to the intended target/ball line.

A pull hook could be the same inside out swing with a club face closed to the target/ball line.

A push fade is likely an inside out swing path with a face more open than the swing path.

A straight push would be an inside out swing where the club face is square to the path (but open to the original intended target/ball line). And a straight pull the exact opposite.

Are these over simplifications? Or possibly just wrong? Club face is 75-85% of initial ball flight, right? Are there situations where thats not true? How do all of these "new rules" change with short irons vs long clubs?

I suppose a pull hook could also be a "square" (inside to inside) swing path with a closed face? And also outside in swing path with an even more closed clubface?

Thanks

#2 would probably be a duck hook but yes these are simplified but accurate. These don't take into account angle of attack or solidness of strike which is why they are simplified. Direction of swing and direction of strike are rarely the same so be careful when you say swing path.

 

[dannyc]

Direction of swing and direction of strike are rarely the same

would you mind to clarify?

thanks

 

[ggsjpc]

would you mind to clarify?

thanks

These are terms brian uses:

Direction of swing is the swingpath/plane line when it's tangent at lowpoint.


Direction of strike is the 3 dimensional direction the club is moving either before or after lowpoint. Generally, irons are hit before lowpoint meaning club head is still moving downward and outward(right for righties/left for lefties) making the direction of the strike right of the direction of the plane line.

The only time they are the same is if the collision of the ball occurs exactly at lowpoint.

 

[tomwatson1000]

more details...

Thanks for the responses, can we confirm or correct the following five (semi-simplified) ideas based on impact quality and angle (I might have these backwards):

1. Toe hits can enhance draw/hook curve and/or minimize fades/slices.

2. Heel hits can enhance fade/slice curve and/or minimize draws/hooks.

3. Shots higher on the club face will produce relatively less curve than shots hit lower.

4. Contact before the low point in the swing will/can enhance draw curve.

5. Contact after the low point in the swing will/can enhance fade curve.

All of the above assume the ‘rules’ earlier in this post dominate initial starting direction (club face point direction) and general curve (swing path relative to face point).

Thanks!

 

[dannyc]

These are terms brian uses:

Direction of swing is the swingpath/plane line when it's tangent at lowpoint.


Direction of strike is the 3 dimensional direction the club is moving either before or after lowpoint. Generally, irons are hit before lowpoint meaning club head is still moving downward and outward(right for righties/left for lefties) making the direction of the strike right of the direction of the plane line.

The only time they are the same is if the collision of the ball occurs exactly at lowpoint.

gotcha, thanks!

 

[dbl]

Back in your OP, I didn't like your four definitions referring to path first and face second. The emphasis belongs the other way around, imo, if you are trying to "rewrite" ball flight laws to reflect the D-Plane.

As to the toe hits and stuff below, I would think there are all kinds of exceptions. And 'contact after low point' - wouldn't almost anything be possible, depending on other factors (turf, hardpan, sand, flip, aoa, etc)?

Thanks for the responses, can we confirm or correct the following five (semi-simplified) ideas based on impact quality and angle (I might have these backwards):

1. Toe hits can enhance draw/hook curve and/or minimize fades/slices.
2. Heel hits can enhance fade/slice curve and/or minimize draws/hooks.
3. Shots higher on the club face will produce relatively less curve than shots hit lower.
4. Contact before the low point in the swing will/can enhance draw curve.
5. Contact after the low point in the swing will/can enhance fade curve.

All of the above assume the ‘rules’ earlier in this post dominate initial starting direction (club face point direction) and general curve (swing path relative to face point).
Thanks!

 

[tomwatson1000]

Back in your OP, I didn't like your four definitions referring to path first and face second. The emphasis belongs the other way around, imo, if you are trying to "rewrite" ball flight laws to reflect the D-Plane.

As to the toe hits and stuff below, I would think there are all kinds of exceptions. And 'contact after low point' - wouldn't almost anything be possible, depending on other factors (turf, hardpan, sand, flip, aoa, etc)?

Agreed.....emphasis certainly belongs on the face for the all important initial direction and represents the new/correct school of thought, but path -- and hence curve -- remains pretty important.

I guess the 'contact after low point' would mostly reflect driver swings or other tee shots.