Putting Setup and Stroke

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jbrunk

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I use a Cameron Newport 2 that is 33in.....i'm 5'10.

Traditionally I have used the Stockton forward press and hold shoulder rock stroke because it made me feel more comfortable on shorter putts. Over the last year the roll off the putter head has gotten progressively worse, and I have now changed to a more 'wristy' pop and stop kind of stroke. The roll has improved a lot on longer and intermediate putts.

Last year I put one of those big Tiger Shark grips on my putter to aid in the old stroke and it is time for a regrip, soooooo a couple questions:

1. Does a smaller traditional grip work better for a more hands stroke?
2. I feel less confident on the new stroke on shorter putts, so what can I do to remedy that other than reps?


Thanks
 
S

SteveT

Guest
If you want a truly expert putting opinion, I suggest you post your questions on Geoff Mangum's Flatstick Forum.

Link: Geoff Mangum's Flatstick Forum

You can post there without registering and his responses are quite thorough.
 
magicmarker

magicmarker

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I'm not a fan of the oversized putter grips. To me, putting is all about feel. I wanna feel the head, the ball and every bit of impact that I can. I use the regular sized thin grips to get more feedback and I grip it more in my fingertips than my palms (especially with the right hand). The more it feels like I have total control of everything the more margin for error I have to 'miss' it and still hole it. Putting inside 12 feet is probably my biggest strength.
 
J

jbrunk

New
SteveT said:
If you want a truly expert putting opinion, I suggest you post your questions on Geoff Mangum's Flatstick Forum.

Link: Geoff Mangum's Flatstick Forum

You can post there without registering and his responses are quite thorough.
Click to expand...

I appreciate the response Steve, but I prefer some of the stroke philosophy from Brian, Matt, Kevin, Lindsey and some others I have heard opine on this particular stroke pattern.
 
J

jbrunk

New
mgranato said:
What's the problem? Speed, touch, line, or just the plain old newness of the motion?
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I feel like I am too close to release the putterhead without slamming it by 4 feet. It is weird, I do better with the short ones putting with only my right hand. I can really feel the putterhead and release it, but when I add the left hand I just can't re create that feel. I am pushing most of these putts.
 
S

SteveT

Guest
jbrunk said:
I appreciate the response Steve, but I prefer some of the stroke philosophy from Brian, Matt, Kevin, Lindsey and some others I have heard opine on this particular stroke pattern.
Click to expand...

So, if I understand you, you use a wrist pivot stroke for longer putts and a shoulder rock stroke for shorter putts. I hope you realize that you are shortening the putter swing radius for longer putts and increasing the radius for short putts. Do you know what that does to the (moment of) inertia of your putting stroke?

Also, the Scotty Newport 2 has an offset hosel or "plumber's neck" hosel and is face balanced for minimal "toe-flow" according to Cameron.

In my view, this putter is not suitable for wrist pivot stroking because the putter CofM is too far behind the putter face and the shaft axis is ahead of the face. The geometry is just not right.

A Bullseye or Wilson 8802, or even a Spaulding Kashin putter is more suitable for wristy stroking because the putter shaft axis and putter head CofM align. The Newport 2 should only be swung from the shoulders to negate the influence of the offset and back CofM... in my opinion.

As for your jumbo grip, I don't know how you can use it for wristy stroking, because a bigger grip will spread your finger grip and compromise your wrist flexing and unflexing. It's okay for shoulder stroking because all you do is hold on to the grip and the arms, hands and putter form one pendular assembly.

If you don't believe me, get Mangum's neuro-scientific opinion... because trading "feel" with everybody here is just that... comparing "feels".

Or... you can carry two putters... one for short putts and another for longer putts. You might even try a belly putter for longer putts where it excels but is crap for short putts.
 
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K

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
jbrunk said:
I use a Cameron Newport 2 that is 33in.....i'm 5'10.

Traditionally I have used the Stockton forward press and hold shoulder rock stroke because it made me feel more comfortable on shorter putts. Over the last year the roll off the putter head has gotten progressively worse, and I have now changed to a more 'wristy' pop and stop kind of stroke. The roll has improved a lot on longer and intermediate putts.

Last year I put one of those big Tiger Shark grips on my putter to aid in the old stroke and it is time for a regrip, soooooo a couple questions:

1. Does a smaller traditional grip work better for a more hands stroke?
2. I feel less confident on the new stroke on shorter putts, so what can I do to remedy that other than reps?


Thanks
Click to expand...

What is it about the shorter putts that make you less confident? The aggressive nature of a "pop" stroke?
 
J

jbrunk

New
SteveT said:
So, if I understand you, you use a wrist pivot stroke for longer putts and a shoulder rock stroke for shorter putts. I hope you realize that you are shortening the putter swing radius for longer putts and increasing the radius for short putts. Do you know what that does to the (moment of) inertia of your putting stroke?

Also, the Scotty Newport 2 has an offset hosel or "plumber's neck" hosel and is face balanced for minimal "toe-flow" according to Cameron.



In my view, this putter is not suitable for wrist pivot stroking because the putter CofM is too far behind the putter face and the shaft axis is ahead of the face. The geometry is just not right.

A Bullseye or Wilson 8802, or even a Spaulding Kashin putter is more suitable for wristy stroking because the putter shaft axis and putter head CofM align. The Newport 2 should only be swung from the shoulders to negate the influence of the offset and back CofM... in my opinion.

As for your jumbo grip, I don't know how you can use it for wristy stroking, because a bigger grip will spread your finger grip and compromise your wrist flexing and unflexing. It's okay for shoulder stroking because all you do is hold on to the grip and the arms, hands and putter form one pendular assembly.

If you don't believe me, get Mangum's neuro-scientific opinion... because trading "feel" with everybody here is just that... comparing "feels".

Or... you can carry two putters... one for short putts and another for longer putts. You might even try a belly putter for longer putts where it excels but is crap for short putts.
Click to expand...

Steve, I am using the new stroke for all putts at the moment.
 
K

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
jbrunk said:
Sort of. I usually am a pretty agressive putter, but I don't feel like the face in the right position to pop it on a 3-4 footer.
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Not to be coy, but why not work on the face condition for shorter putts? Prob don't need a total stroke overhaul if I
ts nothing but the face.
 
J

jbrunk

New
Kevin Shields said:
Not to be coy, but why not work on the face condition for shorter putts? Prob don't need a total stroke overhaul if I
ts nothing but the face.
Click to expand...

Maybe I am misinterpretting your response, but the stroke overhaul was to get the roll improved, and it has. As far as working on the face condition on short putts, I thought that is what this thread is for.
 
K

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
Ok, so the question is....you're happy with the stroke because the roll is better, but looking for advice on how to control the face.

Sorry, still reeling from 2nd grade basketball and the ensuing season ending pizza party.
 
mgranato

mgranato

New
J, do you want to feel a pop on a 3 footer? Typically that's a pretty small amount of head travel for that length of putt, I find less is more (or at least enough) from that range.
 
J

jbrunk

New
I wanted to change my putting because I couldn't put a decent roll on the ball at all. I was making 1-10 from a flat 10 feet away. 5 of these wouldn't finish inside of 3 feet!

The change has improved the stroke from 5-30 feet by a lot. I open the face on the way back and close it coming through now with some pop. From 4 feet and in opening the face on the way back isn't working well and I am trying to figure out why. It feels like there is too much going on in a short amount of time and I tend to leave the thing open and push it.

Technically, I am bending the right wrist back on the backswing and straightening it on the throughswing. Maybe that is too much face rotation?
 
magicmarker

magicmarker

New
STROKE THE PUTT, don't pop it.
Using a ball that has a seam like a penta or an old proV1 I sharpie the whole seam so it has a clear ring on it. Then just play around with your putting stroke until you can roll the ring on a tight line. For me that meant hitting up on it more, for you it could be different.
 
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K

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
jbrunk said:
I wanted to change my putting because I couldn't put a decent roll on the ball at all. I was making 1-10 from a flat 10 feet away. 5 of these wouldn't finish inside of 3 feet!

The change has improved the stroke from 5-30 feet by a lot. I open the face on the way back and close it coming through now with some pop. From 4 feet and in opening the face on the way back isn't working well and I am trying to figure out why. It feels like there is too much going on in a short amount of time and I tend to leave the thing open and push it.

Technically, I am bending the right wrist back on the backswing and straightening it on the throughswing. Maybe that is too much face rotation?
Click to expand...

Definitely sounds right to me
 
S

softconsult

New
"Maybe that is too much face rotation?"

I have difficulty understanding why you need to open the face for a 4 footer. If you are an arc putter, then the face will appear to open, but it stays square to the inclined plane. Really sounds like you are introducing a big variable by opening the face too much.

Only other thing I would add is this. I went and got fitted for an Edel putter. This included a putting lesson and observations during the fitting process. Point is that it was helpful to have the instructor ask me things like, "Where do you think your hands are relative to the ball down the target line?" I am a very decent putter, had my hands and shaft almost leaning backwards. Didn't feel like that to me due to the visual illusion created by where your eyes are. When I asked about ordering with an insert, he said, no way. You don't need to hit it softer, you need crispness. I would have never come up with the specs we settled on. Only time will tell, but so far I like the results.

This is only intended to raise the potential thought of taking a lesson, not a plug for a putter manufacturer.
 
S

ScottRob

New
I second the Edel, non-pluggishly, of course! A question about your grip: is the grip in the lifeline of the left palm? If you want a little "play" in the wrists, it is advisable for the left hand grip to be more conventional (under the heel pad.) You get maximum of club head travel, for the minimum of hand travel i.e. very little movement of the right wrist. See Tiger, Crenshaw, Locke etc.
 
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