Putting talk
- Thread starter bcoak
- Start date
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I've been thinking a lot about putter design lately. I find center-shafted, non-offset putters easiest for me to aim and putt with.
I like that the sweetspot is aligned with the shaft. It makes sense to me. Contact feels much more solid.
The center-shafted putter is also easier for me to look at. Nice and simple. I find double-bend putter shafts to be disorienting, and most plumber-neck hosels make the face look closed.
The thing I like most about the center-shafted putter is that it makes it very easy for me to trace a straight plane line. I just keep the tip of the shaft pointed at the line throughout the stroke, though it does move off for longer putts.
As far as stroke type is concerned, I think I'm fairly SBST. It's just how I putt, there's been no conscious effort to avoid an arcing stroke. Opening and closing the face feels unnatural, so I just let the putter swing while making sure that the face angle stays perpendicular to the plane.
Lately, I've been experimenting with more of a side sadde stroke. It's not Sam Snead side saddle, but I'm standing more open to the line with a narrower stance and just trying to brush the ball to the hole. I have a 38-inch putter with a long grip that I hold split-handed, ala Happy Gilmore (I'm starting to think that movie may end up as one of the greatest golf instructional videos of all time).
It's been lethal on short putts, but I have to remind myself not to get too flippy with the brushing. Tracing a straight plane line helps.
As far as D-plane/swinging left is concerned, I'm content to leave that alone unless I really start to have problems. My stance is that if I'm rolling it well, there's a decent chance I'm already conforming to at least some of the D-plane imperatives.
I like that the sweetspot is aligned with the shaft. It makes sense to me. Contact feels much more solid.
The center-shafted putter is also easier for me to look at. Nice and simple. I find double-bend putter shafts to be disorienting, and most plumber-neck hosels make the face look closed.
The thing I like most about the center-shafted putter is that it makes it very easy for me to trace a straight plane line. I just keep the tip of the shaft pointed at the line throughout the stroke, though it does move off for longer putts.
As far as stroke type is concerned, I think I'm fairly SBST. It's just how I putt, there's been no conscious effort to avoid an arcing stroke. Opening and closing the face feels unnatural, so I just let the putter swing while making sure that the face angle stays perpendicular to the plane.
Lately, I've been experimenting with more of a side sadde stroke. It's not Sam Snead side saddle, but I'm standing more open to the line with a narrower stance and just trying to brush the ball to the hole. I have a 38-inch putter with a long grip that I hold split-handed, ala Happy Gilmore (I'm starting to think that movie may end up as one of the greatest golf instructional videos of all time).
It's been lethal on short putts, but I have to remind myself not to get too flippy with the brushing. Tracing a straight plane line helps.
As far as D-plane/swinging left is concerned, I'm content to leave that alone unless I really start to have problems. My stance is that if I'm rolling it well, there's a decent chance I'm already conforming to at least some of the D-plane imperatives.
mgranato
New
Except for the side saddle dabbling
, we sound very much alike. I've recently discovered the center shafted putter (Rife 2 bar hybrid) gives me a straight aim everytime. The double-bends and plumber necks always got aimed left. I also agree with the "naturalness" of just pointing the shaft up and down the plane line. I've also got an improvement for the 1.5* of effective loft from this putter. Do you know the loft of the one you're hitting?lookingtolearn
New
Unless you hit down on your putts, you won't need to swing more left/aim more left with the putting stroke.
Richie3Jack
New
D-Plane is alive and well in putting, but you should not hit down on your putts. Thus, you should not swing left.
But where D-Plane comes into play is the face has much more effect on the initial direction than stroke path. So your face needs to be square to the target at impact and at seperation.
Understand what this chart is below and you have taken a major step in improving your green reading, where to aim and will help your stroke (since you're not aiming at the incorrect spot).
3JACK
But where D-Plane comes into play is the face has much more effect on the initial direction than stroke path. So your face needs to be square to the target at impact and at seperation.
Understand what this chart is below and you have taken a major step in improving your green reading, where to aim and will help your stroke (since you're not aiming at the incorrect spot).
3JACK
Chip Putterman
New
The thing that affects putting the most is where the FACE is aimed. Whether you stroke it SBST or in an arc, where the FACE is aiming determines where your ball goes. Learn to hit the sweet spot on a properly aimed face an your ball will roll straight.
D-Plane is alive and well in putting, but you should not hit down on your putts. Thus, you should not swing left.
But where D-Plane comes into play is the face has much more effect on the initial direction than stroke path. So your face needs to be square to the target at impact and at seperation.
Understand what this chart is below and you have taken a major step in improving your green reading, where to aim and will help your stroke (since you're not aiming at the incorrect spot).
3JACK
So on a put that looks like it breaks a foot, the ball will only move 4" (the apex) sideways. Or you should generally play more break than it looks?
ggsjpc
New
This is a great pic. Looks familiar
For a green surface that is planar, when you putt across the slope, the putt is breaking as soon as it comes off the putter face. Because of this, you have to aim in a different place than where the putt reaches its apex. You don't aim at the curve. You aim to start the curve.
mgranato
New
Understand what this chart is below and you have taken a major step in improving your green reading, where to aim and will help your stroke (since you're not aiming at the incorrect spot).
3JACK
Mark was kind enough to send me the 'normal' and 'tournament' speed versions of his charts. They are, without a doubt, the coolest things I've used having anything to do with putting/scoring. Pelz started blowing up the whole 'apex putting' way of green reading by saying the break is aprox 3x the apex, but the science behind what Mark has done takes it to a whole other level.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
If you use an on plane stroke, and I believe that 70& of golfers (AT LEAST) should, you have to "swing left" to aim straight and hit up like you should!
Richie3Jack
New
Pelz says that you need to play 3x more break than you think. There's a big flaw in that theory and causes golfers to leave putts that break too high. What the graph is saying, for a hole that is on a planar slope (one side is high one side is low) to HIT THE BALL SO IT GOES ON THE LINE YOU READ, you have to AIM ABOVE THE APEX. So essentially you're not playing more break, you're reading the line of the putt like you normally would, you're just aiming above the apex so you can get the ball on that line.
One of the issues with Pelz's theory is that it can cause the golfer some major issues with speed and touch since they are essentially reading the putt incorrect. Here you are reading the putt correctly, just adjusting your aim spot from where you usually would aim.
Where I believe this graph has helped my putting stroke is that I believe often times the subconscious kicks in when your results are poor. If you were to aim at the apex, you would miss the putt on the low side. So what happens is your brain kicks in and makes adjustments for you and that's where the stroke and aim problems can come about. I have a laser tool at home and since I've followed this graph, my aim has improved noticeably when I use this laser aid.
One more putting thought: When I am struggling I find the best way for me to get back on the groove is to work on my speed/touch.
3JACK
mgranato
New
When you talk about "on plane" in putting, what plane are you referring too? Shaft plane at setup?
mgranato
New
The wording in my post was terrible, but I respectfully have to disagree a bit. I don't believe he says to read 3x more break, but rather says to aim 3x higher than the apex. He doesn't prescribe playing more break, but rather aiming high enough to have the ball roll on the path that takes it to the apex - which I believe is exactly what you're referencing in your chart. Playing 3x more break than you think would be crazy talk
. The point, I poorly tried to make, was that the AimCharts take the approximation of "3x" to a much more refined formula by way of his laser mapping. It probably doesn't happen often, but I believe DP, GM, DO, MS and BM are all in agreement that the proper aim for a planer putt is much higher (as much as 3x ) than were the apex of said putt resides. The real tragedy is that there are some highly touted teachers who STILL teach aiming at the apex .Which side of our fair city do you play on?
Mr. J
New
Since Pelz has been mentioned quite a bit in this thread, one of the putting aids he has that I have is the Putting Tutor. It really took my putting to a whole new level and will allow you to really see how much "more" break you need to play than what you typically play. It makes the chart/graph shown make much more sense when you can experience with the help of an aid what aim point putting is all about. If you don't have one, you should strongly consider it especially if putting is a weakness.
Richie3Jack
New
I tend to play up north in Forsyth, but usually play all over. In this past week alone I've played The Frog, Windermere, and Smoke Rise.
3JACK
ggsjpc
New
If the putting tutor is placed on the green on a slope does the ball start to break and hit the marbles?
I do not, though I should probably get that figured out. I think excessive loft has been an issue for me as the ball tends to skid on longer putts (15+ feet).
My hands are right above the ball, maybe even a little behind them, like Zach Johnson. I've tried a little forward press, but it feels weird and I think it opens the face.
At some point I'm going to get fit for a putter so I can attribute my crappy putting to my stroke rather than having to wonder if it isn't just the loft of my putter.
I should have included this in my last post, but could you explain who doesn't need to use an on-plane stroke? What type of putters fall within that 30%?
Swinging left presupposes an open face, right? So you would first have to get the face open, then worry about swinging left. Am I on track here.
The swinging left makes sense to me. If you were trying to hit a straight-ball with the driver, you would have to have the face open in order for the ball to go straight (assuming you're hitting up on it). In that sense, putting reminds me more of hitting a straight driver than it does hitting a little cut shot.
Mr. J
New
In response to the question about the putting tutor on a slope...I have never had that happen to me...you will discover that you will put in on the line you think the ball should start on...and given the speed at which you hit the putt, find out pretty quickly that you are pretty off the mark. It is such a great putting aid and teaches you so much more than how to aim correctly...I mean, I guess if you were on some 40* slope on Augusta type fast greens, it may POSSIBLY occur...but I have used this thing on some of the nicest courses in the Houston Texas area...never had the problem you asked about..."drive for show..."
mgranato
New
Not been my experience. From 15' and in with a 2.5%-3% (steep) slope I've not had any problems - other than me issues
.Has anyone tried the drill were you putt 3-4 footers down the length of one of those thin metal yard sticks? Seems like it'd be a pretty good way of monitoring a "straight roll".
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