Putting!!

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bray

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To whom it may concern,

Can someone please explain the advantages/disadvantages of having your eyes over the ball when putting.

Most teacher's teach that having your eyes over the ball may help you see the line of the putt better. Are there any other advantages for "the human machine" to having your eyes over the ball. Am I wrong if my eyes are not over the ball??

Sorting through the instructors textbook!!

B Ray
 
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Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
quote:Originally posted by rwh

quote:Originally posted by EdZ

Your eyes need to be 'on plane'.
Click to expand...

What plane?
Click to expand...

Even when putting, you can trace a straight plane line. It is easier to do when your eyes are on that particular plane.

This is clearly visible if you have a laser tracing system with a matt. I suggest the butch harmon one.
 
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Damon Lucas

Super Moderator
Your eyes need to 'gaze' straight out of your head(perpendicular from your face) at the ball.
This may mean your eyes are over the ball, or not if the top of your spine, and head, are at an incline. I believe it is optimal for the eyes to be over the ball and gazing straight at the ball, albeit not quite as comfortable for the body.
As far as tracing a straight plane goes, I again recommend the eyes over, perpendicular spine combo, BECAUSE it allows the shoulders to move around the spine and creating a fairly straight stroke.
Using lasers would be contingent on the shoulders positioning because otherwise you would be 'fighting' your body's natural movements. That is, putts of different lengths and lines would need different adjustments, and NO amount of plane line tracing will help you.
Again, I grant that this initial set-up feels uncomfortable to most, although Nicklaus, Palmer, Casper, Appleby,etc have done/do all right.
Finally, the reasons I'm reserved about inclined planes of any kind for putting are those listed above, the hazards of ball position, the 'which' plane am I putting on - eye plane as Jim seems to be recommending???, shoulder plane, shaft plane, forearm rotation, and putterface rotation(whether to it's path, or not!).
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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Interesting post Homerson...

I've also heard that straight putting is fine if your neck/upper back (axis of rotation) are parallel to the ground.
 
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bray

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Homerson, you said,

"I again recommend the eyes over, perpendicular spine combo, BECAUSE it allows the shoulders to move around the spine and creating a fairly straight stroke."

If my eyes are inside the ball is that acceptable for a more rounded stroke?
This may feel less uncomfortable as you described.

Sorting through the Duffer's Bible.

B-Ray
 
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Jack

New
Check out Dave Pelz for his views.

In a nut shell if your eyes are directly over the ball - you will be sighting the same line for any length putt. Ever see somebody drain 6 footers all day but can't hit the hole from 3 feet.

His 6 footer are sighted correctly for his eye position but his 3 footers are off. With your eyes directly over the ball you will be sighted the same (on your line) from any distance.

Eyes over ball, Turn your head till you see the target and check it out from different distances.
 
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Damon Lucas

Super Moderator
Check out Pelz, but you won't find much worthwhile info on correct use of the eyes.
You can have your eyes over the ball, BUT, incorrectly looking down your cheekbones, and you will see different lines, be they 3, 6 or 30 footers. SO, eyes over ball, looking straight down.
Yes, you CAN have your eyes inside the line and your spine off of horizontal, and have your shoulders still move around your spine. This creates a straight stroke, which LOOKS like an arcing stroke. The biggest differential is your ball position, which is not overly meaningful in the horizontal spine/eyes straight over the ball set up.
 
J

Jack

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Heh Homerson.

What???? Sorry eyes looking down directly down (put a mirror under ball to check to check your eye position) over ball. Ever sight a rifle?? Or do you just shoot from the hip.
 
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Damon Lucas

Super Moderator
Heh Jack,
I appreciate the mocking, but...
'Sighting' with a rifle at a target in space is different from sighting a putt in terms of your body position, head position, and your head movements, ie you 'see' a different line.
Do this Mr Expert Jack...
Have your head and eyes over the mirror;
1. With your face level or parallel to the ground,
2. With your face angled towards any point outside the ball.
Now hold a shaft at your eyeline, and turn your head toward the target.
Does the shaft still point toward the target with 2?
 
J

Jack

New
Bray

Look at this way if you like

3 footer - Eyes (Ball = Eyes)directly over Ball

Target--------------Ball Putter

6 footer - Eyes (Ball = Eyes)directly over Ball

Target-----------------------------------------Ball Putter

Eyes, Ball and Target are aligned the same for both putts (looks the same)

3 footer Eyes inside Ball

Target--------------Ball Putter
Eyes

6 footer Eyes inside Ball

Target-----------------------------------------Ball Putter
Eyes

Now draw a line from Target to Eyes for the 3 footer and 6 footer (use some geometry) the angles between Target and Ball differ for each putt. Thus you have to make some sort of adjustment to sight the putt correctly.

Why bother if you can just put your eyes directly over the ball.
 
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Jack

New
Sorry

Forum cursor moved Eye position in above example -- Place Eyes directly below Ball and you'll see.
 
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Jack

New
Heh Homerson,

Thanks I wish I typed better but I am just talking about getting up with a consistent sight mechanism over the ball.

The angle between Target and Eyes vary on differnt length putts unless your Eyes are directly over the ball.

Then with you eyes directly over the ball -- putt the ball.

Why would you move head (eyes) to another position?

PS thanks for the posts
 
D

Damon Lucas

Super Moderator
Jack,
I agree 100% with creating a consistent sight mechanism over the ball. I just believe, and I may be wrong, but don't think I am when I say that it is very important to differentiate between head positions with your eyes directly over the ball.
http://puttingzone.com/ziptips.html#STR
Go to the section on gaze straight for dead aim.
Do you still believe what you're saying?
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

New
All this is...is the proper way to look down the line ("walk " your eyes down the line of the putt and back).

And he's right too...if you do it with your head above parallel and turn your head to look straight down the line...your eyes will look to the left of the line.

And to prove a point....if you orient your head so your face is below parallel (which you never would because it's so uncomfortable and unnatural) and turn your head your eyes will gaze to the right of the line.

...think about it.

Now...you don't HAVE to putt like this...but you DO want to DEFINATELY do it if you plan on using a sq. to sq. stroke w/ no manipulations--and you don't want any manipulations.

Putt with yor chin up more and you will naturally have a inside-square stroke.

Like in this pic: http://theputtingarc.com/content/00/01/08/66/06/userimages/Why_It_Works.GIF?rand=1100809249
 
J

Jack

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Could we all be right - Once your eyes are directly over ball - I'll call it a swivel - a small movement - look down the target line and fire.
 
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