Putting

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gumper

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Has anyone used Stan Utley's "Learning Curve" or V.J. Trolio's "Putting Arc?" Were they helpful? On the one hand, I love playing with new toys. On the other hand, if putting on an arc is the natural motion, then why would these aids br useful?

Also, I just picked up Utley's new book on chipping and pitching. Has anyone read it? Are his views "TGM-friendly?"

Finally, for those of you who have read his book on putting, or his articles, what do you think of his putting instruction?

Thanks,

gumper
 
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gumper

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Ouch! Well, it's safe to say that Mangum is not a fan of the arc stroke, at least not Utley's. Now the question becomes, how valid are Mangum's views? Are his theories TGM -friendly.

As a fair putter at best, my thoughts are:

1. If the putting motion is *naturally* on an arc, fine. However, I don't want to think about whether or not I am applying the correct degree of curvature.

2. I have never once thought about what hinge action I should apply. I have enough trouble figuring out how to read the green and how to calculate distance control.

I would love to hear from the AIs on this forum as to their views about putting. Is there a TGM putting stroke? Is there a Manzella Matrix putting stroke?

gumper
 
2mongoose

2mongoose

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I'm not sure how many Pelz fans are on the forums here, but objectively speaking I think taking a look at what he has to say is a must. Pelz breaks things down quite analytically and it's hard to digest at times but at least it could get you thinking about a few things right?
 
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Jared Willerson

Super Moderator
I like Mangum's stuff. He makes a lot of sense to me and his ideas have really helped my putting. Especially the idea of the lead arm in the stroke.
 
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mb6606

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gumper said:
Ouch! Well, it's safe to say that Mangum is not a fan of the arc stroke, at least not Utley's. Now the question becomes, how valid are Mangum's views? Are his theories TGM -friendly.

As a fair putter at best, my thoughts are:

1. If the putting motion is *naturally* on an arc, fine. However, I don't want to think about whether or not I am applying the correct degree of curvature.

2. I have never once thought about what hinge action I should apply. I have enough trouble figuring out how to read the green and how to calculate distance control.

I would love to hear from the AIs on this forum as to their views about putting. Is there a TGM putting stroke? Is there a Manzella Matrix putting stroke?

gumper
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I am not an AI but plane and hinge are critical to putting.
 
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armourall

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Not sure about Utley, but Trolio is a TGM guy. The arc training aids produce the same clubhead path as tracing the plane line.
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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For me it's just about setting up corectly with my eyes over the line....correct grip for me......ball position....balanced.....(this all actually is huge IMO).......and then simply tracing a straight plane line..........with whatever kind of clubface control you use of course. (for myself, I don't open it so much these days)
 
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Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
Here's the #1 thing you need to understand whether or not you want to use a straight back straight through method or an arc method:

You need a putter setup for ONE of those two strokes. The same putter WILL NOT work for both. If you want to putt straight back and straight through and use some vertical hinging, sure go right ahead. Then you better be using a 30-31.5" putter with the minimum legal amount of hosel bend that the USGA says. Basically you need something very UPRIGHT and SHORT otherwise geometrically, it won't be very effective.

Any type of "arc" stroke is much easier to produce in my opinion and all the best putters use it. The reason is because they are comforming to the proper plane angle that their putter is built on.
 
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Jared Willerson

Super Moderator
Jim Kobylinski said:
Here's the #1 thing you need to understand whether or not you want to use a straight back straight through method or an arc method:

You need a putter setup for ONE of those two strokes. The same putter WILL NOT work for both. If you want to putt straight back and straight through and use some vertical hinging, sure go right ahead. Then you better be using a 30-31.5" putter with the minimum legal amount of hosel bend that the USGA says. Basically you need something very UPRIGHT and SHORT otherwise geometrically, it won't be very effective.

Any type of "arc" stroke is much easier to produce in my opinion and all the best putters use it. The reason is because they are comforming to the proper plane angle that their putter is built on.
Click to expand...


Would a short center shafted putter accomplish this for SBST stroke?
 
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swingobsessed

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Jim Kobylinski said:
Here's the #1 thing you need to understand whether or not you want to use a straight back straight through method or an arc method:

You need a putter setup for ONE of those two strokes. The same putter WILL NOT work for both. If you want to putt straight back and straight through and use some vertical hinging, sure go right ahead. Then you better be using a 30-31.5" putter with the minimum legal amount of hosel bend that the USGA says. Basically you need something very UPRIGHT and SHORT otherwise geometrically, it won't be very effective.

Any type of "arc" stroke is much easier to produce in my opinion and all the best putters use it. The reason is because they are comforming to the proper plane angle that their putter is built on.
Click to expand...

Do you have any good drills for tracing the plane line with your putter to practive an arc? Most putters have a bend (some a double bend) that makes using the shaft to trace it difficult.
 
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Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
swingobsessed said:
Do you have any good drills for tracing the plane line with your putter to practive an arc? Most putters have a bend (some a double bend) that makes using the shaft to trace it difficult.
Click to expand...

Attach a laser to the shaft and have it point slightly in front of the sweet spot on the putter. My butch harmon laser trainer doubles as a putting laser trainer too (as does the matt that comes with it) and if i'm tracing a straight line on that matt and have the ball position just right so the face is in the perfect condition at impact, I WILL NEVER MISS.

My record on the matt is something like 52-55 in a row from i think 7 or 8 feet. I probably could have went more but my back and neck were hurting. I use an arc stroke btw and teach it predominately as well.
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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I thought those hung toe-down tho? (when balanced off the finger) Isn't this kind of putter meant to open and close more? (vs. face-balanced)
 
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swingobsessed

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Jim Kobylinski said:
Attach a laser to the shaft and have it point slightly in front of the sweet spot on the putter. My butch harmon laser trainer doubles as a putting laser trainer too (as does the matt that comes with it) and if i'm tracing a straight line on that matt and have the ball position just right so the face is in the perfect condition at impact, I WILL NEVER MISS.

My record on the matt is something like 52-55 in a row from i think 7 or 8 feet. I probably could have went more but my back and neck were hurting. I use an arc stroke btw and teach it predominately as well.
Click to expand...

What do you think about on the course in terms of tracing the plane? You just go by feel from all of the practice?

Also, isn't that Butch Harmon laser out of production? I can't find it anywhere. I am curious as to why it is (if it is) because it seems to be popular. Is there anything else just as good?
 
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Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
swingobsessed said:
What do you think about on the course in terms of tracing the plane? You just go by feel from all of the practice?

Also, isn't that Butch Harmon laser out of production? I can't find it anywhere. I am curious as to why it is (if it is) because it seems to be popular. Is there anything else just as good?
Click to expand...

Tracing a straight plane line with your putter, the way i teach it is so simple it's ridiculous. All you do it move your hands back, and then move them foward. Pretty freakn' easy.

I think it is, you can find them on Ebay or people who still have them. There might be others out there but this is the one i like and has everything i think it should have so i never looked for anything else. I had a few before the one i always recommend but i never felt like i was getting what i paid for and the other thing was that, at the time, the butch harmon version was the only one that had the laser attach DIRECTLY to the butt end of the club. A lot of the others one would attach to the shaft and be slightly to the side and well, that really isn't the plane.
 
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puttmad

New
....

gumper said:
Has anyone used Stan Utley's "Learning Curve" or V.J. Trolio's "Putting Arc?" Were they helpful? On the one hand, I love playing with new toys. On the other hand, if putting on an arc is the natural motion, then why would these aids br useful?

Also, I just picked up Utley's new book on chipping and pitching. Has anyone read it? Are his views "TGM-friendly?"

Finally, for those of you who have read his book on putting, or his articles, what do you think of his putting instruction?

Thanks,

gumper
Click to expand...

Gump,
People that know me here know I have a different view on putting...:D

I would be telling you to forget SBST, arcs and all that stuff and simply concentrate on returning the blade back to the angle you had it at address...CONCIOUSLY!...it really is that simple...
 
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