Looking at the results from the Q-school it seem to me to be close to impossible to get onto the Tour this way. Look at some of the ex-Tour Players struggling to even get close. IMO it is definitely easier to get a European Tour Card. If the US players start coming over to the European Tour School it will be "goodnight Vienna" for many aspiring ET players...JMHO
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Jared Willerson
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I agree and if I were an aspiring pro, Europe would be the way I would do it. Easier to get a card, therefore easier to get world ranking points, if you do well, you are in a whole bunch of co-sanctioned tournaments eventually leading to a PGA Tour card anyway. The exception being that you get to eat thick steaks, drive fast cars and hang out with 5 star buxom blondes all the while...instead of eating McDonalds driving the bus and hanging around 2 star chicks on the Nationwide tour.
I do think European players should support their home tour more. None of those guys would be here without it.
I do think European players should support their home tour more. None of those guys would be here without it.
I do think European players should support their home tour more. None of those guys would be here without it.[/QUOTE]
While I agree with much of what you're both saying, there are a few points to be added. Firstly, just because you've never heard of a lot of these guys from the Asian and European continent, don't think that they're lesser players than the U.S lads. They maybe a little less polished, perhaps, - a testament to the fabulous U.S college system - but certainly not wanting in the pure talent stakes.
Secondly , the culture shock of living in an environment that completely strips you of all the creature comforts of home makes it a tad more difficult to achieve on the golf course.
And to your point of supporting their home tour, Jared. If an American lad born in Florida has to travel a long way to play an event in the U.S, he's off to California..3 time zones, easy travel, no passports, visa, food or language headaches to deal with. Contrast that with a lad born in Spain, who, to support his tour at the outer reaches could well have to travel to the Far East, with all that that entails.
Moreover, when you get into the upper echelons, shall we say, top-class players want to play in the U.S because thats where 3/4 of the majors are played. If Colin Montgomerie hadn't detested the U.S so much (and he seems to have brought a fair bit of that on himself) surely he would've snaffled a US Open or two, as good a player as he was.
Chubby Chandler intimated in an interview that the balance of power is shifting, and while I think it's way too early to be pressing the panic button (largely because the college system in the U.S is so superior ) it's still an interesting observation. Watching players like KJ Choi and YE Yang, whose clothing and equipment are festooned with Korean corporate logos, totally impenetrable to those of us who don't understand Korean, one has to think that Chubby - and he is the ultimate insider - probably has a point.
Lastly, gimme a porcelain-skinned brunette any day of the week!!
While I agree with much of what you're both saying, there are a few points to be added. Firstly, just because you've never heard of a lot of these guys from the Asian and European continent, don't think that they're lesser players than the U.S lads. They maybe a little less polished, perhaps, - a testament to the fabulous U.S college system - but certainly not wanting in the pure talent stakes.
Secondly , the culture shock of living in an environment that completely strips you of all the creature comforts of home makes it a tad more difficult to achieve on the golf course.
And to your point of supporting their home tour, Jared. If an American lad born in Florida has to travel a long way to play an event in the U.S, he's off to California..3 time zones, easy travel, no passports, visa, food or language headaches to deal with. Contrast that with a lad born in Spain, who, to support his tour at the outer reaches could well have to travel to the Far East, with all that that entails.
Moreover, when you get into the upper echelons, shall we say, top-class players want to play in the U.S because thats where 3/4 of the majors are played. If Colin Montgomerie hadn't detested the U.S so much (and he seems to have brought a fair bit of that on himself) surely he would've snaffled a US Open or two, as good a player as he was.
Chubby Chandler intimated in an interview that the balance of power is shifting, and while I think it's way too early to be pressing the panic button (largely because the college system in the U.S is so superior ) it's still an interesting observation. Watching players like KJ Choi and YE Yang, whose clothing and equipment are festooned with Korean corporate logos, totally impenetrable to those of us who don't understand Korean, one has to think that Chubby - and he is the ultimate insider - probably has a point.
Lastly, gimme a porcelain-skinned brunette any day of the week!!
Europe has a lot of good players, and you have to be sheet hot to get a ET card.
But take a look at the Q-school in the US. 25 cards and that quality of field. A NIGHTMARE for anyone embarking on that journey.
The perceived "balance of power shift" as Chubby calls it is only at the pinnacle of the game. Move down a league and the US is on a different level.
My hypothesis: a 50 man challenge (Ryder Cup style) of the Nationwide Tour vs the Challenge Tour would result in a drubbing for Europe. Big time.
But take a look at the Q-school in the US. 25 cards and that quality of field. A NIGHTMARE for anyone embarking on that journey.
The perceived "balance of power shift" as Chubby calls it is only at the pinnacle of the game. Move down a league and the US is on a different level.
My hypothesis: a 50 man challenge (Ryder Cup style) of the Nationwide Tour vs the Challenge Tour would result in a drubbing for Europe. Big time.
Oh gosh, yes, of course the US Tour is stronger and so are the feeder systems - No denying that whatsoever. It's just that I wanted to make the point that the gap might not be as cavernous as you think.
Nationwide Tour versus the Challenge Tour, no doubt the Nationwide Tour would win, and handily so. But remember that the Challenge Tour is a feeder tour consisting primarily of Continental Europeans and UK players - not the guys from Asia, Australasia and Africa who get to the European Tour through co-sanctioning and European Tour school. Moreover, alot of these continental players hail from countries with little golfing infrastructure, so for them to get that good is often quite some achievement.
The old chestnut about European Tour versus Nationwide Tour is just that, an old chestnut. If the Europeans have to broom their elites, then so do the Nationwide guys for a fair playground - The European Tour would win comfortably either way IMHO.
At the end of the day, with internationalism blurring the lines, it's really hard to tell. Let's face it, the Ryder Cup is just 12 funny-accented guys living in Florida playing against 12 European guys who also live in Florida!!
Nationwide Tour versus the Challenge Tour, no doubt the Nationwide Tour would win, and handily so. But remember that the Challenge Tour is a feeder tour consisting primarily of Continental Europeans and UK players - not the guys from Asia, Australasia and Africa who get to the European Tour through co-sanctioning and European Tour school. Moreover, alot of these continental players hail from countries with little golfing infrastructure, so for them to get that good is often quite some achievement.
The old chestnut about European Tour versus Nationwide Tour is just that, an old chestnut. If the Europeans have to broom their elites, then so do the Nationwide guys for a fair playground - The European Tour would win comfortably either way IMHO.
At the end of the day, with internationalism blurring the lines, it's really hard to tell. Let's face it, the Ryder Cup is just 12 funny-accented guys living in Florida playing against 12 European guys who also live in Florida!!
Don't kid yourself Oli. Europe has infrastructure coming out its ears now.
Where has more golf infrastructure: Scotland or Sweden? England or Germany? Denmark or Wales?
Hint: it's not the British Isles. JMHO based on experience.
birly-shirly
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Where does Northern Ireland fit in? Infrastructure, or luck of the oirish?
Hmmm, It's been a while since I was over there, but Denmark? Beautiful country, even better looking people but when an R11 costs 100 trillion kroner (tax not incl.) it seems hard to believe. And Thomas Bjorn came through long before any appreciable upgrade, as did players like Anders and Soren Hansen. Same with Bernhard Langer and a few others from (West)Germany. Sweden is a stand-alone because it has excellent golfing facilities, especially given the fact that much of the place is hardly hospitable for golf for much of the year. If it is true that these golfing backwaters have overtaken the UK in this respect it's a scandal, and I shall be having strong words with the Rt. Hon. David Cameron when I'm next in town!!
I knew it would take a Brit...!!
Ever heard of the internet, the single market (EU), the 80+% of the population with a high speed internet connection and the fact that practically everyone speaks English? They can get their R11s for the same price as you bud!
Most of populated Sweden has a better climate than most of the UK, as does Denmark and Germany. All of these countries have a better eduction system than the UK and in almost every "standard of living" measurement are way above the UK. So it would be a total contradiction if their golfing infrastructure was inferior to the UK's.
The UK's success (inc. NI) is based on other factors, mainly numbers. But that's a different story.
Davie Cameron is trying hard, but he has 50 years of decline and mismanagement to content with. Tell him I wish I him all the best but I ain't holdin ma breath and I ain't hangin around waitin for things to improve. JMHO
Oh yes, as an ex-pat Englishman myself, I'm embarrassed to say that your observations are reasonably accurate. The standard of living index - any one you like - does put the Scandinavian and continental North European countries way ahead of the UK, but I'm not sure how that relates to the relative golfing infrastructures. If we use standard of living as a reasonable predictor, surely it would stand to reason that Denmark, Sweden and Norway would have better golfing than the USA, given the fact that they also stand ahead of the U.S in standard of living, education, etc. - And clearly that's not the case.
As for the climates, well Denmark, (the country I'm most acquainted with) certainly doesn't fare better there, in terms of daylight if nothing else. Although to be proud of the UK climate is absurd in and of itself so I'll stop there!
The internet - which I seem to be reasonably well acquainted with
- may have stripped away some boundaries in terms of markets, but - and granted, this is anecdotal - my Danish relatives pile across to the US and load up in Golf Galaxy like Supermarket Sweep on steroids for a reason; but I will defer to you on that.As for the UK economy etc. well, the manufacturing base got stripped away a couple of decades ago, so now the wealth is created in the primary and tertiary sectors. Take away the former and we're a wannabe Switzerland.!!
Are you an ex-pat also? And if so you live anywhere near NJ?
It is one of the major influencing factors in sport. Take South Korea (compared with other Asian countries) for example....
Per head of population they may be ahead...
With the exception of the south coast in summer, it's a real bummer!
The US is still the ultimate market for golf equipment.The internet - which I seem to be reasonably well acquainted with
The emphasis being on WANNABE.
Jawohl, mon copain.
No bro, but if I had been 5 years younger I would've probably ended up in the US. A few of my buds went there to find pastures new and pastures green in the good ole USA but free trade in goods and labour was more developed around the time I realised that if you didn't work in banking in the City of London then you were better off leaving our green and pleasant land, so I ended up in the old world and not the new.
It is one of the major influencing factors in sport. Take South Korea (compared with other Asian countries) for example....
It is one, but they are markedly more important factors - How to disburse the wealth, prioritzing, etc - Switzerland is one of the wealthiest nations in the world by any measure, but their sports infrastructure is geared more towards winter games. If golf isn't prioritized (from a public or private sector standpoint)then the infrastructure won't be there, regardless of macro factors.
Per head of population they may be ahead...
As opposed to?
With the exception of the south coast in summer, it's a real bummer!
I beg to differ. In 26 years living in Worcestershire, I got my sunscreen out TWICE!
The emphasis being on WANNABE.
LOL Shame how far we've fallen isn't it?
Jawohl, mon copain.
France and Germany? Whereabouts? Golf business?
No bro, but if I had been 5 years younger I would've probably ended up in the US. A few of my buds went there to find pastures new and pastures green in the good ole USA but free trade in goods and labour was more developed around the time I realised that if you didn't work in banking in the City of London then you were better off leaving our green and pleasant land, so I ended up in the old world and not the new.
Ah. Wouldn't have minded grabbing a beer...
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