With horizontal hinging, I'm understanding that the hands must rotate some on the way back. Wouldn't it be easy then, if using horizontal hinging, to over-rotate and end up on a much flatter plane? It seems to me that it would be easier to stay on plane using angled hinging. From what it sounds like, horizontal hinging seems to be the hinge of choice for swingers, but again, it just seems more difficult to stay on plane once you start rotating on the way back. Can anyone shed some light on this for me? Maybe I'm misunderstanding the different hinge actions.
Question about Horizontal Hinging & Angled Plane.
- Thread starter Jimmy A.
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rwh
New
Swingers rely on Centrifugal Force to release the club and Horizontal Hinging is the hinge action that pure Centrifugal Force automatically produces. So, Swingers don't choose Horizontal Hinging as much as Centrifugal Force chooses it for them.
As to getting too flat, it sounds like you have too much "around" and not enough "up" in your backswing.
Visualize the inclined plane on which you swing. As you start up and move into the backswing, the Left Hand turns only to the point where the palm is laying flat on your plane. If you turn more than that, you are off plane. It is not that much -- maybe a quarter turn. Then you just keep the palm laying on the plane until you swivel into impact.
Flat left wrist, turn the palm flat on the plane.
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
No, because you are allowing centrifugal force do the work or "squaring up" of the face for you. Over-rotate the face open (whether steep/flat/on plane) and there won't be enough "force" to rotate it closed and the face will hang open and you'll hit a big fade. This is the bane of the average golfer, they OVER ROTATE the face open and try to make 1,000,000,000,000,000 compensations to fix it and just end up fading/slicing it more.
On plane to what? You mean just stay on plane in general? Then i'd say no. Executed correctly, you can stay on plane without issue using any of the 3 hinge actions.
I think you're just misunderstood a little bit. The rotation of the face open on the backswing is very small, only a 1/4 turn. Here is something i learned that will show you how much a 1/4 is:
-Stand straight up, with your arm out in front of you 90* to your body.
-Now let's say you body is facing north. I want you to position your hand so that the back of your hand is facing west.
-Now just rotate your arm so that your palm faces the fall.
^^^That is the 1/4, and rotating to the plane. THATS IT. Anymore more than that and you've over-rotated.
Hope that helps
birdie_man
New
Whoa. What's after a trillion? A gazillion? [8D]
No really tho...it's prolly true. The ol' under the plane (wayyy to the inside), "too low and too slow", over-roll takeaway.
On the other side is those guys that hold the face all savagely closed...
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
nothing wrong with savagely closed...its called the twist-away 
and a good way to LEARN how NOT TO OVERROLL IT OPEN.
and a good way to LEARN how NOT TO OVERROLL IT OPEN.palmreader
New
Jim,
You said hand roll about 1/4 turn during takeaway for a swinger. During the downswing would you roll the hand back to square the clubface or let the body hinging to square the clubface then twist away for the finish? I am confused about what need to be done during the downswing to square the clubface. Is it automatic due to hinging or manipulate (or roll back) the hands?
Thanks
You said hand roll about 1/4 turn during takeaway for a swinger. During the downswing would you roll the hand back to square the clubface or let the body hinging to square the clubface then twist away for the finish? I am confused about what need to be done during the downswing to square the clubface. Is it automatic due to hinging or manipulate (or roll back) the hands?
Thanks
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
As long as you don't manipluate the clubface, centrifugal force does the roll for you. The main thing is that you get the sequence right...you must UN-COCK (downplane) then let the roll happen.
bts
New
Grip the club in either hand lightly and move it back and forth with passive arm and wrist and see the clubface (and the arm) rotate by itself around the sweetspot along with the clubhead movement.
This is what is supposed to occur when the club is gripped and moved with both hands in swinging.
This is what is supposed to occur when the club is gripped and moved with both hands in swinging.
palmreader
New
Thanks Jim and bts. I am reading the yellow book, and trying to understand the concepts. I see following as the basic steps for a swinger (I have watched Tommosello videos on LB site).
1. Set up, impact fix etc..and then take the club back (I like shoulder turn takeaway) to the position where club is horizontal and parallel to the baseline. At this time hands rolled about 1/4 turn.
2 Turn shoulders and the hips and take the club to tthe top on or above the turned-shoulder plane. If it goes below the turned-shoulder plane, it is too flat. When you do that, hand are cocked naturally.
3 Make a slight lateral hip movement (parallel or cross line based on what you want to do). This will drop you arms little bit and bring the right elbow closer to the right hip. You basically try to stay on the turned-shoulder plane.
4 Now you start rotating the hips (hinge action), as the arms come down to impact area, uncock the hands naturally and roll in to impact while maintainign the flat left wrist and bent right wrist. These happen too quick, but bascially this is the sequence. The hips and shoulders continue to rotate.
5 Post impact, the hands continue rotation (swivel) in to the finish. This keeps the flat left wrist in to finsih.
Where did I go wrong?
Thanks
1. Set up, impact fix etc..and then take the club back (I like shoulder turn takeaway) to the position where club is horizontal and parallel to the baseline. At this time hands rolled about 1/4 turn.
2 Turn shoulders and the hips and take the club to tthe top on or above the turned-shoulder plane. If it goes below the turned-shoulder plane, it is too flat. When you do that, hand are cocked naturally.
3 Make a slight lateral hip movement (parallel or cross line based on what you want to do). This will drop you arms little bit and bring the right elbow closer to the right hip. You basically try to stay on the turned-shoulder plane.
4 Now you start rotating the hips (hinge action), as the arms come down to impact area, uncock the hands naturally and roll in to impact while maintainign the flat left wrist and bent right wrist. These happen too quick, but bascially this is the sequence. The hips and shoulders continue to rotate.
5 Post impact, the hands continue rotation (swivel) in to the finish. This keeps the flat left wrist in to finsih.
Where did I go wrong?
Thanks
[/quote]
I think you're just misunderstood a little bit. The rotation of the face open on the backswing is very small, only a 1/4 turn. Here is something i learned that will show you how much a 1/4 is:
-Stand straight up, with your arm out in front of you 90* to your body.
-Now let's say you body is facing north. I want you to position your hand so that the back of your hand is facing west.
-Now just rotate your arm so that your palm faces the fall.
^^^That is the 1/4, and rotating to the plane. THATS IT. Anymore more than that and you've over-rotated.
Hope that helps
[/quote]
Coul you explain "the fall" for me?
I think you're just misunderstood a little bit. The rotation of the face open on the backswing is very small, only a 1/4 turn. Here is something i learned that will show you how much a 1/4 is:
-Stand straight up, with your arm out in front of you 90* to your body.
-Now let's say you body is facing north. I want you to position your hand so that the back of your hand is facing west.
-Now just rotate your arm so that your palm faces the fall.
^^^That is the 1/4, and rotating to the plane. THATS IT. Anymore more than that and you've over-rotated.
Hope that helps
[/quote]
Coul you explain "the fall" for me?
birdie_man
New
ahahahaha. He's gonna kick himself.
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