Question to Instructors about Teaching Philosophy

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Tball88

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Ok, for all of the golf instructors on this site.

Let's say you have a golfer who is a single digit handicap, pretty fair player, and better than average striker of the ball.

1. He tells you that he is not too concerned about distance and just wants to consistently hit the fairway.

do you.

a. see what his natural swing is and dial it in a bit. IE: let's say he pulls the ball left, do you just work with him to get him to pull the ball less left. Determine if the pull is due to his pivot, clubface, etc. and try to fix that.

b. teach him a pattern. IE: Never hook again, soft draw etc. and try to develop a go to ballflight.

C. something completely different, like rebuilding his swing completely.
 
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pecky987

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i'd do a mixture of A and B. use bits an pieces of different patterns ("one last point", "carry", wedding ring up") to fix the move he is doing that causes the ball flight
 
ggsjpc

ggsjpc

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hard to answer

tell him to hit 5 iron off the tee cause he isn't concerned with distance.:)

It's fairly difficult to become a single digit without a level of consistency. If the person is a single digit handicap with above average striking ability, I would ask him if he really thinks that his driving is preventing him from attaining his goals. Assuming that is, I would do A only.
 
Slicer McGolf

Slicer McGolf

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I would like to see what the player is trying to accomplish. Once I have an idea of how long I have to work with the player we can create a plan to work towards.

Our golf season in Canada is from April to October, so our training is set such that its swing improvements in the winter and short game and scoring in the summer.

The majority of players require a modification to their set up and from there its fixing the face for a slicer and path for a hooker.
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
My Philosophy.

Tball88 said:
Let's say you have a golfer who is a single digit handicap, pretty fair player, and better than average striker of the ball.

1. He tells you that he is not too concerned about distance and just wants to consistently hit the fairway.

do you.

a. see what his natural swing is and dial it in a bit. IE: let's say he pulls the ball left, do you just work with him to get him to pull the ball less left. Determine if the pull is due to his pivot, clubface, etc. and try to fix that.

b. teach him a pattern. IE: Never hook again, soft draw etc. and try to develop a go to ballflight.

C. something completely different, like rebuilding his swing completely.
Click to expand...

A single digit handicapper could have a myriad of problems, or next to none, as far as technique goes.

But, I'll try my best with your question.

I never ever teach someone a pattern right "out of the matrix."

Sometimes people wind up with a lot of a pattern, but rarely the whole thing.

Remember, the Matrix Patterns are all patterns that developed out of a need across hundreds of golfers.

Here is my basic golf teaching philosophy:

Everyone can be improved almost right away in some respects if you know where to look for root causes, and how to get the student to do something different easily.

I would say I could give a very good 10 ball lesson to Tiger, Phil, David, Mr. Single-Digit, Mrs. Playeverydaybutcantbustninety, or Mr. & Mrs. Fabersham.

After those initial adjustments, you have to know what to do next.

The best part about me, is even when I don't, I'll just try things to see how they affect other things.

At the end of the day it is ALL CUSTOM.

Overhaul are never necessary directly, because you can whittle and improve as you go.

That's the hard way, and most teachers don't want the hard way.

The goal is always improvement. But to me, that means THIS LESSON as well, not just "down the road."
 
tongzilla

tongzilla

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Brian Manzella said:
Overhaul are never necessary directly, because you can whittle and improve as you go.
Click to expand...

This is interesting. So after taking a lesson from you, a student who usually shoots in the mid-80s won't suddenly be shooting in the high 90s because of a swing change you've made?
 
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Tball88

New
Jim, I'm not sure why he pulls, let's just say for practical purposes, it's not a hook, but the left side is an issue for the player. Could be over the top, could be a face pull, who knows. But a few times a round he's losing it left.

I think what I'm trying to get at, is would you approach this person with a pattern that maybe promotes a fade type ball flight, to work off the left side,

Or would you try to fix what is causing the initial problem.

Or would you start from scratch and teach what may be deemed a technically preferred move.
 
Slicer McGolf

Slicer McGolf

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I have seen great players become so down on themselves because of a bad golf lesson where the pro fixes the effect and does not correct the cause.

I heard this a public driving range last year. Pro to the student: 'you're coming violently over the top and right across that there ball. I think you need a driver with a closed face'

It was magic.
 
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Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
Tball88 said:
Jim, I'm not sure why he pulls, let's just say for practical purposes, it's not a hook, but the left side is an issue for the player. Could be over the top, could be a face pull, who knows. But a few times a round he's losing it left.

I think what I'm trying to get at, is would you approach this person with a pattern that maybe promotes a fade type ball flight, to work off the left side,

Or would you try to fix what is causing the initial problem.

Or would you start from scratch and teach what may be deemed a technically preferred move.
Click to expand...

If he's real good and just losing it left a few times, wouldnt you just try to find out the root cause of the pull?
 
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Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
Tball88 said:
Jim, I'm not sure why he pulls, let's just say for practical purposes, it's not a hook, but the left side is an issue for the player. Could be over the top, could be a face pull, who knows. But a few times a round he's losing it left.

I think what I'm trying to get at, is would you approach this person with a pattern that maybe promotes a fade type ball flight, to work off the left side,

Or would you try to fix what is causing the initial problem.

Or would you start from scratch and teach what may be deemed a technically preferred move.
Click to expand...

I'm only go to give away a little because i'm sure others will steal it...

I would make him hit shots for me until the problem arises, then i'd make him hit some more to see the mixture of good shots versus the pulls and other ballflights he may have that aren't "normal" for him. By that time i should have the few main root causes; then i'll have to figure out which one.

I would then have him do a couple different things, without explaining what i'm doing, just kind of like "do this and hit a shot for me." This would allow me to isolate the root cause, then when the ball is straightening out and he is not doing what the root cause of the pull was i'd tell him you're fixed; for now.

Then i'd give him a very easy explanation of what he was doing that was causing it without any technical language at all and make sure he understood (in his own speak) why it pulls so that way he can fix it on the course when and if it happens again.

That'd be about it
 
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Tball88

New
Interesting response.

Here's why I'm asking.

Let's say a guys pulls everything left. Over the top, and he's got that coupled with a closed face, uh-oh, fore left.

What's the best way to make him a good golfer?

Is it to teach him to swing correctly, better pivot, better grip, better stance, etc. etc. and rebuild his swing. This could work, but more than likely will take significant time and practice.

Or do you say, God has given you an over the top swing. We're going to work with that, and open the face a little and make you a fader of the ball.

The point being, do you focus on teaching an ideal swing, or focus on developing a consistent ball flight pattern.
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Tball88 said:
Let's say a guys pulls everything left. Over the top, and he's got that coupled with a closed face, uh-oh, fore left.

What's the best way to make him a good golfer?

Is it to teach him to swing correctly, better pivot, better grip, better stance, etc. etc. and rebuild his swing. This could work, but more than likely will take significant time and practice.

Or do you say, God has given you an over the top swing. We're going to work with that, and open the face a little and make you a fader of the ball.

The point being, do you focus on teaching an ideal swing, or focus on developing a consistent ball flight pattern.
Click to expand...

That guy has probably got a really strong grip, a reverse pivot, and not nearly enough axis tilt at impact.

Elapsed time from first ball hit to first ball hit 80% correctly, less than 45 minutes max.

The rest is coaching.
 
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Tball88

New
Brian,given your prescribed fixes, what type of ball flight should this student expect?

If his natural tendency is to have the strong grip, limited axis tilt, and reverse pivot, would you work on a pattern that would be more agreeable with his bad habits and produce a more playable ball for those swings when he reverted to his old bad ways?
 
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