Range report......

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Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
Well, it's been a looooooooooong time since i've just gone out to hit balls. Man reason is because well, it's been freaking cold in chicago lol. However we got up to 50* today and it was warm enough.

I've really settled on a pattern for me, i don't tinker much anymore except for learning and amusement. If you're curious about what i've "settled" on, it's pretty similar to what Tomasello shows on his tapes. However i use different hip action. It just seems to work for me. Before this i was using the "never hook again" type pattern and having excellent results but i just couldn't get really comfortable.

Anyway, here are some things i noticed while "amusing" myself with different components:

1) Snap loading: much more fluid than sweep or random and tends to hit a lower ball. I also feel like i'm letting centrifugal force work more. As brian would say, more SNAP. Definately more of an effortless feeling.

2) Sweep loading: a little more "mechanical" feeling. Works really well with the longer clubs for some extra height. Short irons do go a little higher with some more spin. Goes straighter "for me."

3) Random loading: feels a little more natural to me. Like just letting it happen. Works well with swinging and a good "in between" type of motion. Makes sense too since random is, in between, sweep and snap lol.

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For me though, sweep seems to have the best results consistently, from driver through wedge. Funny thing though, is going from one extreme to the other (sweep to snap or snap to sweep) is such a different feeling and motion, it took a few swings to get back comfortable to one or the other.

It's always fun to tinker, but i'm just happy i've found something i like to do with every club, time after time. I will admit though I like hitting my short irons more often than swinging them. Little more accurate and i like the left/right side spin you get out of them.

I guess the point of this post is to don't be afraid to tinker, but when you find something you do something well. Stick with it :)

PS. Brian, if you're reading this...what i've settled on now is EXACTLY what i ended up doing almost 2 falls ago after i saw you. Only difference is instead of the twist-away i am letting it swivel to the plane.
 
vandal

vandal

New
Good to hear you're having nice results. I was tinkering a bit today, but I'm a little early on into my TGM foray and still trying to figure this whole thing out. I seemed to have great results using what I think is Brian's twist-away motion and a feeling of keeping my right elbow in and using my right forearm to move the club back. I was doing what I thought was sweep loading -- isn't where you kind of feel like you are leaving the clubhead behind on the takeaway -- sweep loading gave me pretty good results, but I did better with the twist-away move, I think. I don't have a book, so I'm not sure what snap loading or random load look or feel like.

Thanks for the descriptions.
 
huestisc

huestisc

New
Jim or Brian,

Is twist-away incompatible with start-up swivel? Earlier I had some success with twist away, then experimented and got even better (and really effortless) results with a start-up swivel. However, when I try to add twist away on top of that, I pull hook it off the planet. Does this make sense? Is it one or the other?

And Vandal, the "leaving clubhead behind" take-away is not sweep loading, it is quite the opposite! In TGM terms, for both take-away and release, the terms have the following meanings:
Sweep = early
Random = middle
Snap = late
 
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MizunoJoe

New
Twist-away is a mutually exclusive alternative to standard wrist action(turn and cock) and single wrist action(cock only). It's a curling under with the last 3 fingers of the left hand, and is nothing new, because there were advocates of this in the 80s, and probably earlier.
 
huestisc

huestisc

New
OK, MJ fair enough. Here is what I struggle with, maybe you or others can shine some light. Before exposure to TGM (8 months ago), at the top of my swing my left wrist was EXTREMELY bent (with a fairly neutral grip), and the clubshaft was way across the line. It makes sense that twist-away would help. I then found I tapped into CF much better with standard wrist action (emphasizing a start-up swivel that was previously lacking). The uncock and roll came very naturally and very smoothly...however, my left wrist is still a bit bent at the top and at impact, I feel like it lacks a "whallop". On the other hand, if I monitor my left wrist at the top to make sure it is flat, and I swing out to right field, I feel like I really compress the ball more and additionally I can really agressively roll the left arm post-impact. Is there anyway for me to reconcile the flat left wrist/whallop procedure and the standard wrist action swivel, CF-driven effortless swing, or am I striving for the unattainable?
 
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MizunoJoe

New
I know what you're talking about. It's the anatomical FLW vs the effectively FLW distinction. Have you tried a more neutral grip, which would eliminate the slight bend at the top? The weaker the grip, the more aggressively you can rotate through impact without worrying about going left. Also, make sure you aren't overdoing the turn of the left wrist going back in standard wrist action, as it's easy to overswivel, causing a bend at the top.

One final thought - many good players slightly bow(arch) the left wrist at the top before start down to produce that whallop you're talking about. This is called "laying off" the club.
 
huestisc

huestisc

New
OK good stuff, MJ, I will try it out. On the grip, I have a tendency to slip into a bit more of a turned left hand from time to time. I have very small hands, and it is difficult for me to grip the club under the pad of the left hand, and sometimes when I try to, the only way I can hold it secure is for my left hand to turn a bit...but I will try to be more precise about it and see how it goes.
 
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MizunoJoe

New
That is important, because I too have small hands and use a "tour strong" grip, with 2.5-3 knuckles showing on the left hand. Having a secure left hand grip trumps everything else in my mind. If you too have to go stronger for security and can't weaken the grip, then arching at the top may be the answer to getting the whallop in the CF-driven effortless Swing.
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
quote:Originally posted by vandal

Good to hear you're having nice results. I was tinkering a bit today, but I'm a little early on into my TGM foray and still trying to figure this whole thing out. I seemed to have great results using what I think is Brian's twist-away motion and a feeling of keeping my right elbow in and using my right forearm to move the club back. I was doing what I thought was sweep loading -- isn't where you kind of feel like you are leaving the clubhead behind on the takeaway -- sweep loading gave me pretty good results, but I did better with the twist-away move, I think. I don't have a book, so I'm not sure what snap loading or random load look or feel like.

Thanks for the descriptions.
Click to expand...


The 'leave-the-clubhead-behind' takeaway—better known as the "LAGGING CLUBHEAD TAKEAWAY" is absoultely a great way to play golf (ie Vardon, Jones, Hagen, Nelson), but is not part of my twistaway concept.

However, once a person who NEEDED twistaway, learned to twistaway, the lagging clubhead takeaway might help them if they had the right "need."

But a golfer with a TWISTtoward, instead of a TWISTaway, might get the shanks if they did the lagging clubhead takeaway.
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
quote:Originally posted by huestisc

Is there anyway for me to reconcile the flat left wrist/whallop procedure and the standard wrist action swivel, CF-driven effortless swing, or am I striving for the unattainable?
Click to expand...

Not at all.

Listen...if you can get your left wrist flat at the top without TWISTAWAY, do it!

All this business about the FANNING is really pretty silly.

If you NEED TO fan, FAN. If not, DON'T.

If you can square up the face by separation, you NEED to hit the inside aft quadrant.
 
curtisj76

curtisj76

New
The 'leave-the-clubhead-behind' takeaway—better known as the "LAGGING CLUBHEAD TAKEAWAY"

What benefit does this have to the swing? Thanks
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
I could do an hour on this, but...

If your mind is in your hands—and the pivot does all the work (I know they don't teach this in "the swamp"), the clubhead will lag behind the hands on the backstroke ("LAGGING CLUBHEAD TAKEAWAY") and on the downstroke (FLOAT LOADING).

For golfers who need better—or more—loading......AND maybe a straighter delivery path.....the "LAGGING CLUBHEAD TAKEAWAY" is great!
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

New
I like it.....as you say in "Flipper" Brian.....it allows you to create momentum in the Back Stroke to stress the shaft in the change of directions...

I feel it lets me "leave the clubhead behind" at the top better as I pull down with my left shoulder. More Lag.
 
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