Really drilling down into TGM ?

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hue

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Brian : On your Brian Manzella school of golf web page Interview with Brian you wrote

What book was that?
The Golfing Machine.

Why did you think you were coming up with new ideas if you were reading the book daily?
Because Homer Kelley (the author) had done several things to the text of the book that made it very difficult to comprehend if you read it like a novel. He wanted it small enough to carry around, so the concepts were not exactly crystal clear to someone who was reading the book without the assistance of an authorized (Golfing Machine) instructor.

Is this what led to your association with (renown Golfing Machine instructor) Ben Doyle?
Indirectly.
These “discoveries” of Golfing Machine concepts happened pretty regularly for a little over a year. Then it stopped. I was getting frustrated with my inability to continue learning the book. One day at my mom’s house, I threw the book across a couple of rooms. My mom and I had been through a lot the early part of that year (1987), with my dad passing away, and she wasn’t about to let me or her get upset over a book. So she convinced me to go and study with Ben an get authorized myself.

How did that go?
I spent four full days with Ben, taking lessons and watching him teach. Ben started by asking me to show him how I would give a chipping lesson. Then he had me hit some eight-iron shots. I absolutely flushed every shot and was hitting the ball ridiculously close to the flag I was aiming at. Ben didn't blink and began to reconstruct my whole golf swing. I said, “Ben I came here to get authorized, not to fix my swing.” He told me that I had to be able to demonstrate correctly to become authorized .

I wrote

Posted - 02/15/2004 : 07:03:08
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quote:
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Originally posted by hue

Brian: I know you worked as hard as you could going through the book before you went to Ben Doyle. In percentage terms how much can you really understand of Homer's work left to your own devices without direct assistance from an AI IYO ? Thanks.

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Brian: You said 15% . If you chuck in the info that can be gleaned from books like Hebron's Secrets and Lies, the Ben Doyle video, your videos and those of Chuck Evans , this website, the Chuck Evans website and the TGM forum. What would you say the percentages go up to ? Thanks.


brianman


USA
975 Posts
Posted - 02/15/2004 : 12:43:21
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Great question.

I did much more of my OWN research (and still do) than nearly anyone,

THROUGH this research is how I realized that Homer was right.

It is NOT a religion to me, but a guide.

Homer himself said "REAMS OF ADDITIONAL MATERIAL MUST BE MADE AVAILABLE...PROBABLY ENDLESSLY"!!!!!!!!!!

Brian: I Can relate to how you felt before you went to see Ben Doyle. How much time did you have to spend with him before you got all the missing bits on a conseptual level? I feel one can only go so far without direct help from an AI. If one wants to take things to the next level. How do you go about it?
Martee: Could you go into your experiences in futhering your knowledge of TGM also? Thanks
 
M

Martee

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For me this has been an on again off again relationship since 1981.

John Allan May was my only external help of any sorts on the book and that was through his articles.

How much did I pick up THAT was useful and correct, probably less than 10%. I read it many times, but to be honest, being an engineer, I am sorry those terms used coupled with my knowledge of golf didn't jive. Just couldn't get the handle on it. Also I am not known for being paitent, so I just kept cycling and getting a little, but nothing that would pull it all together.

Two years ago I decided to get a handle on this, my first approach was to analyze my swing, break it down into the 24 components and the variations. That was not the way to go. Reading all the TGM forums, then trying to understand Chuck's and Brian's one liner, I finally said enough is enough. I re-read the book for the x number of time. Went through all my notes from over the past 20 years I collected, read any thing written by an AI. Watch Evans, Doyle and no Brian's videos.

CLICK, I went back and followed Mr. Kelley's recommendation for reading. I then match it up to Doyle's tape. and blah blah.

I then went to the TGM class. Somewhere during the class Joe Daniels said something, I don't know what but all of sudden it was coming together.

Now when I look at a swing I can turn it on and see the 24 components, still can't recall all the variations, know what to look for, or at least think I do.

Joe gave me a chipping lesson, sounds very much like what Ben did to Brian. I prided myself on my short game since I don't hit a long ball. My short game is 10 times better than before.

This was the stepping stone and hopefully this year it will show to a repeatable swing and low scores.

As for working with others and applying TGM, it still is a task and I am still learning.

Current knowledge level of TGM in total, probably in the high 20's IMO, but I feel that I am on the verge of making a major jump here in the next month or so, that should double that. I haven't memorized the book, I still end up searching for something I know is in there,but can't relate it to a chapter. I have gone through all the drills and will continue till I can do them and then relate them to swing as they should be.

I for one don't believe the book is suited for the golfer, it is and SHOULD be every instructor book. There are too many variations for most golfers to deal with. Most golfers are concerned over be called a Hitter or Swinger and most couldn't define it.

Don't know if this is what you are looking for. I do know that knowing the material isn't where it is at, as some recently reminded me, you need to own it.
 
H

hue

New
Martee: If you had access to a mentor AI on a prolonged one to one basis. How long do you think it would take you to get a full knowledge of TGM on a "conseptual" basis ?

You wrote

"I do know that knowing the material isn't where it is at, as some recently reminded me, you need to own it. "

I agree with you 100%. If you know what you should be doing your chances of "owning it" are infinitely better. I have had enough of practicing rubbish along with the good stuff and although things are much better now. I see no point in practicing the good stuff along side the rubbish because you know no better. If I have got the right knowledge I will implement it. The hard part is sorting out the wheat from the chaff .

You also wrote


"Joe gave me a chipping lesson, sounds very much like what Ben did to Brian. I prided myself on my short game since I don't hit a long ball. My short game is 10 times better than before. "



My short game is the weakest suit and I am addressing this now. Could you go into detail what you learned from this lesson?

Thanks for your reply. Keep up the good work.
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
I think I may do a tape ust on the book.

I wrote an OUTLINE way back that I have used to make guys like Mikestloc, Tom Bartlett and Chris Hamburger as knowledgeable as they are in TGM and it is a bunch more than 20something percent.
 
H

hue

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The sooner the better. I would want it for sure and I am certain that many others on this forum would also.
 
M

Martee

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quote:Originally posted by brianman

I think I may do a tape ust on the book.

I wrote an OUTLINE way back that I have used to make guys like Mikestloc, Tom Bartlett and Chris Hamburger as knowledgeable as they are in TGM and it is a bunch more than 20something percent.
Click to expand...

That is interesting.. An outline... a bunch more than 20 something percent, well with as many variations combinations that exist, that is great, but that is alot of information to digest and then be able to apply across the board. Guess I am a slow learner...

Personally I think the learning curve can greatly be reduced when you have access to an AI in person. Words can only go so far to describe something, but 20 seconds with and AI demonstrating it, well as they say a picture is worth a 1000 words. Besides even when the interaction with the AI is not directly on TGM, I am sure there are bits and pieces that surface in the course of the conversation.

A good example is just recently there was a lengthly discussion on PP#3, the right hand index finger or trigger finger. They finally spent about 500 words giving a medical description to ensure everyone new what the 1st joint was and the fleshy padd that rests on rear side of the shaft to monitor the club.

I am sure there are those who can learn it from the book, but I feel that is few. It seems all the AI's I have talked with, they always refer to another AI or Mr. Kelley as the one that open it up for them.

Hue, I wrote on one of the boards, I will look what I changed. Interesting if you have Chuck's tape he demo's. Brian has on more than one occassion made a point he chips with every club in the bag and reference a system carry vs roll. Actaully Brian demonstrates on his tape the basic chipping motion when he cover the first part of the tape. Ben Doyle also demonstrates on his tape as well. The key for me, chipping is really a HITTING motion. There is no pivot. Power package only (shoulders are included in this) and the right arm and its motion is vital for success.

What I have discovered that if the motion isn't pure and you are short in height, the longer clubs (driver, woods, long irons) will not perform as well as the mid and shorter. I believe golfers who are taller can get away with a bit less of a pure move cause of thier height.
 
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Dr_J

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Brian,
Don't know about the outside world, but there would be alot of interest, especially on my part for a tape helping people through the book. I think that is exactly what is missing. I think people haven't done it in the past because they are afraid they might be wrong about one thing or another. If anybody wouldn't be afraid of that, I think it would be you. Just enough cocky confidence and a surplus of TGM knowledge to pull it off. Also would be interested in that outline. As someone not having $100-200 an hour to have access to an AI (in my anesthesia residency getting paid pretty much minimum wage with tons of loans and here is Chuck Cook sitting 30 miles away in Austin and Manzella 6 hours away in New Orleans) the outline and tape would be a huge benefit.
 
rwh

rwh

New
You could sell a tape/outline package: "The Manzella Code". Seriously, I would definitely like a copy of the outline should it become available.
 
H

hue

New
There might be enough interest in a Beta tape on this forum to justify a small production run if the production costs of full finished version are prohibative at this stage. I would think that this tape would need more Beta testing than your other tapes. So it would make sense to get the kinks sorted out by Beta testing your protype before going full at it. I would also be very interested in your homemade short game tape .
 
H

hue

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quote:Originally posted by brianman

I think I may do a tape ust on the book.

I wrote an OUTLINE way back that I have used to make guys like Mikestloc, Tom Bartlett and Chris Hamburger as knowledgeable as they are in TGM and it is a bunch more than 20something percent.
Click to expand...
Brian: your Never slice Again tape turned up this morning . Thanks.


When do you think you will get round to doing the OUTLINE TGM tape?
 
C

cdog

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MAKE THE TAPE.....bring forwardthe outline even for a price.
I have stopped reading, started reading TGM so many times i can't count. Personally i will get a tidbit here and there, and actually my ball striking has improved and has my understanding. But the communication from the book is terrible (for me).
 
H

hue

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Brian: I broke par last week for the first time. It was on a short easy course less than 6000 yards. I always wanted to do that and never really thought it would happen. I would not have been able to do it without your advice and not watching both yours and Ben Doyle's videos and I have had so called top coaching and working at it and going up many blind alleys for years. I know deep inside there is more to come. Without the right info we are all walking blindly in the wilderness. Do the video pack it with info and charge the right price. Like Steve/ cdog price is not the issue when you do it you deserve to be rewarded. I need the right tools to finish the job. Thanks.
 
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TYORKE1

New
HUE , congratulations the fact that you broke par is fantastic as well as overcoming the mental barrier. Brian can teach you how but your brain has to let you do it and eliminate those other memories of the past , some advice remember your mental state as when you accomplished this down to taking deep breaths as if it were happening again , do this quite often and when this situation comes again the positive memories will come through, great job and now your ready for the mental , to bad about the wedge it is really nice, TIM
 
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hue

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Tim without keygolf's ebook there is no way I would have broken par. I know that because I played half a round without using clearkeys and the result was a nightmare. I recommend you get his ebook www.clearkeygolf.com. I broke par again on the course last Sunday and went 2 shots better . I am really working on my game at the moment to ensure that this is not a freak occurrence .
 
T

TYORKE1

New
I'll check it out but the site is down , when I lived there we had one month that I could not play , and had the heat wave of 86 during WIMBLEDON oh to have that again , TIM
 
bcoak

bcoak

New
quote:Originally posted by brianman

I think I may do a tape ust on the book.

I wrote an OUTLINE way back that I have used to make guys like Mikestloc, Tom Bartlett and Chris Hamburger as knowledgeable as they are in TGM and it is a bunch more than 20something percent.
Click to expand...

any more thought to posting the outline???
 
E

EaglesNest

New
quote:Originally posted by brianman

I think I may do a tape ust on the book.

I wrote an OUTLINE way back that I have used to make guys like Mikestloc, Tom Bartlett and Chris Hamburger as knowledgeable as they are in TGM and it is a bunch more than 20something percent.
Click to expand...

Please !!!!:)
 
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