Really neat thread(non-instruction)

[shortgamer]

This was on another forum and thought it was pretty cool:



OK, here's the deal. You meet Tiger on the 1st tee of a PGA Tour course.
He wants to play a nassau --- How many shots should you get?

(Before reading further, pick a number you think would be fair).

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If Tiger Woods played you, how many strokes would he be giving up to
make a fair match? The answer may shock you.

You may consider yourself a fine player with your 3 handicap.
Or perhaps you frequently play to your 15 handicap. You may even
think that Tiger Woods could spot you a stroke per hole and you'd
have a close match.

Turns out a hole would be about right if you were about a 3 handicap. And Tiger would
still probably win.

The handicaps of our favorite PGA Tour pros remain a mystery. Sure,
we know they're in the "+" realm (which, oddly enough, means better
than scratch while worse-than-scratch golfers have signless
handicaps), but how far?

Calculations
PGA Tour courses don't have established ratings. Pros often play from
tees used only in PGA Tour events, the rough is grown extra long and
thick, and greens are sped and firmed up. Each of those changes has a
dramatic effect on the course rating and slope, making it difficult
to ascertain the true nature of a pro's handicap index.

Normally we apply a 0.96 multiplier to a person's average
differential in calculating handicaps. This is to help figure in the
"potential" of a player. A golfer with an un-adjusted handicap index
of 5 becomes a 4.8 index after the 0.96 multiplier is applied. It
would make little sense, however, to take a plus-5 handicap to +4.8,
so we must instead divide by 0.96. That would make a +5 golfer a +5.2
golfer, again figuring in the "potential."

At the Top: Tiger Woods
What does it take to be the top golfer in the world? I did a lot of
number crunching and came up with this chart and these shocking
figures:

Used | Date | Score | CR/Slope | Diff. | Tournament
---- ---- ----- -------- ----- ----------
* | 01/28/07 | 66 | 78.1/143 | 15.3 | Buick Invitational
* | 01/27/07 | 69 | 78.1/143 | 11.5 | Buick Invitational
| 01/26/07 | 72 | 78.1/143 | 7.7 | Buick Invitational
| 01/27/07 | 66 | 78.1/143 | 8.3 | Buick Invitational
* | 09/04/06 | 63 | 74.8/143 | 14.9 | Deutsche Bank
* | 09/03/06 | 67 | 74.8/143 | 9.9 | Deutsche Bank
| 09/02/06 | 72 | 74.8/143 | 3.5 | Deutsche Bank
* | 09/01/06 | 66 | 74.8/143 | 11.1 | Deutsche Bank
| 08/27/06 | 68 | 75.1/128 | 8.0 | WGC - Bridgestone Inv.
| 08/26/06 | 71 | 75.1/128 | 4.6 | WGC - Bridgestone Inv.
* | 08/25/06 | 64 | 75.1/128 | 12.6 | WGC - Bridgestone Inv.
| 08/24/06 | 67 | 75.1/128 | 9.2 | WGC - Bridgestone Inv.
* | 08/20/06 | 68 | 78.1/151 | 13.5 | PGA Championship
* | 08/19/06 | 65 | 78.1/151 | 17.5 | PGA Championship
* | 08/18/06 | 68 | 78.1/151 | 13.5 | PGA Championship
* | 08/17/06 | 69 | 78.1/151 | 12.2 | PGA Championship
| 08/06/06 | 66 | 74.3/133 | 9.8 | Buick Open
| 08/05/06 | 66 | 74.3/133 | 9.8 | Buick Open
| 08/04/06 | 66 | 74.3/133 | 9.8 | Buick Open
| 08/03/06 | 66 | 74.3/133 | 9.8 | Buick Open
---- -------- ----- -------- ----- ----------
Average Differential: 10.6
Best 10 Average Differential: 13.2
Handicap Index: +13.75
Now, take a deep breath and read that again. +13.75. Tiger's WORST
ten differentials average out to +8.05.

Something like 10% of golfers ever reach single digit handicaps.
Tiger's not only done that (while still in the womb, no doubt), but
he's blown through the single digits on the OTHER side of scratch and
is in heretofore unexplored territory at +13.75. That may be the
single best handicap index ever!

Next in Line: Jim Furyk
The above makes you think, "How close is Jim Furyk to Tiger's level?"
According to the Official World Golf Rankings, Tiger was
11.53 points better (at the end of 2006). But how many strokes would
Tiger be giving him if they were playing a handicapped event?
Here are Furyk's numbers:

Used | Date | Score | CR/Slope | Diff. | Tournament
---- ---- ----- -------- ----- ----------
| 01/14/07 | 69 | 75.1/135 | 7.3 | Sony Open in Hawaii
| 01/13/07 | 69 | 75.1/135 | 7.3 | Sony Open in Hawaii
* | 01/12/07 | 68 | 75.1/135 | 8.5 | Sony Open in Hawaii
* | 01/11/07 | 65 | 75.1/135 | 12.1 | Sony Open in Hawaii
| 01/07/07 | 71 | 75.2/142 | 5.3 | Mercedes-Benz Champ.
| 01/06/07 | 76 | 75.2/142 | 1.0 | Mercedes-Benz Champ.
| 01/05/07 | 74 | 75.2/142 | 5.3 | Mercedes-Benz Champ.
| 01/04/07 | 71 | 75.2/142 | 5.3 | Mercedes-Benz Champ.
* | 11/05/06 | 65 | 73.9/137 | 10.8 | THE TOUR Championship
* | 11/04/06 | 67 | 73.9/137 | 8.4 | THE TOUR Championship
| 11/03/06 | 71 | 73.9/137 | 3.5 | THE TOUR Championship
| 11/02/06 | 69 | 73.9/137 | 5.9 | THE TOUR Championship
* | 10/15/06 | 66 | 74.3/139 | 10.2 | Frys.com Open
| 10/14/06 | 70 | 74.3/139 | 5.3 | Frys.com Open
* | 10/13/06 | 68 | 74.3/139 | 7.7 | Frys.com Open
* | 10/15/06 | 68 | 74.3/139 | 7.7 | Frys.com Open
* | 09/10/06 | 65 | 76.4/150 | 15.1 | Canadian Open
* | 09/09/06 | 67 | 76.4/150 | 12.5 | Canadian Open
| 09/08/06 | 71 | 76.4/150 | 7.2 | Canadian Open
* | 09/07/06 | 63 | 76.4/150 | 17.8 | Canadian Open
---- -------- ----- -------- ----- ----------
Average Differential: 8.2
Best 10 Average Differential: 11.0
Handicap Index: +11.46

So it appears that Tiger would have to give Furyk roughly two
strokes. That is definitely a lot closer than I had thought it would
be if I were to go strictly off of the Official World Golf Rankings.

Tour Championship, #30: Tom Pernice, Jr.
So what does it take to get into the top thirty on Tour and into the
Tour Championship? I did the same number crunching for Tom Pernice,
Jr. (who has been a pro since I was one year old?) and found out he
plays to approximately a +7.29 handicap.

Used | Date | Score | CR/Slope | Diff. | Tournament
---- ---- ----- -------- ----- ----------
| 02/04/07 | 71 | 73.9/131 | 3.4 | FBR Open
* | 02/03/07 | 68 | 73.9/131 | 6.8 | FBR Open
| 02/02/07 | 71 | 73.9/131 | 3.4 | FBR Open
* | 02/01/07 | 65 | 73.9/131 | 10.3 | FBR Open
* | 01/26/07 | 73 | 78.1/143 | 6.5 | Buick Invitational
* | 01/25/07 | 71 | 78.1/143 | 9.0 | Buick Invitational
| 01/20/07 | 75 | 72.9/122 | 2.3 | Bob Hope Chrysler Cl.
* | 01/19/07 | 70 | 75.3/142 | 6.7 | Bob Hope Chrysler Cl.
| 01/18/07 | 78 | 74.6/140 | 4.2 | Bob Hope Chrysler Cl.
| 01/17/07 | 72 | 73.1/137 | 1.3 | Bob Hope Chrysler Cl.
| 01/12/07 | 70 | 75.1/135 | 6.1 | Sony Open in Hawaii
| 01/11/07 | 72 | 75.1/135 | 3.7 | Sony Open in Hawaii
* | 11/05/06 | 69 | 73.9/137 | 5.9 | THE TOUR Championship
* | 11/04/06 | 67 | 73.9/137 | 8.4 | THE TOUR Championship
| 11/03/06 | 72 | 73.9/137 | 2.3 | THE TOUR Championship
| 11/02/06 | 69 | 73.9/137 | 5.9 | THE TOUR Championship
* | 10/29/06 | 69 | 75.6/140 | 8.2 | Chrysler Championship
| 10/28/06 | 72 | 75.6/140 | 4.5 | Chrysler Championship
| 10/27/06 | 74 | 75.6/140 | 2.0 | Chrysler Championship
* | 10/26/06 | 69 | 75.6/140 | 8.2 | Chrysler Championship
---- -------- ----- -------- ----- ----------
Average Differential: 5.4
Best 10 Average Differential: 7.0
Handicap Index: +7.29

Barely Keeping the Card: J.P. Hayes
What about the "just scraping by" category? What would it take for us
Joes to just barely keep our card (and earn over half a million
dollars)? I found J.P. Hayes had just barely kept his card in 2006
and according to the numbers it would take a +6.75 index to be in his
position.

Used | Date | Score | CR/Slope | Diff. | Tournament
---- ---- ----- -------- ----- ----------
| 02/04/07 | 76 | 73.9/131 | 2.4 | FBR Open
| 02/03/07 | 72 | 73.9/131 | 2.2 | FBR Open
* | 02/02/07 | 69 | 73.9/131 | 5.7 | FBR Open
* | 02/01/07 | 69 | 73.9/131 | 5.7 | FBR Open
* | 01/28/07 | 69 | 78.1/143 | 11.5 | Buick Invitational
* | 01/27/07 | 73 | 78.1/143 | 6.5 | Buick Invitational
* | 01/21/07 | 70 | 75.3/142 | 6.7 | Bob Hope Chrysler Cl.
| 01/20/07 | 73 | 74.6/140 | 2.0 | Bob Hope Chrysler Cl.
| 01/19/07 | 73 | 73.1/137 | 0.1 | Bob Hope Chrysler Cl.
| 01/18/07 | 71 | 72.9/122 | 2.1 | Bob Hope Chrysler Cl.
* | 10/15/06 | 68 | 74.3/139 | 7.7 | Frys.com Open
| 10/14/06 | 72 | 74.3/139 | 2.8 | Frys.com Open
| 10/08/06 | 73 | 74.1/135 | 1.3 | Chrysler Cl. of Greensboro
| 10/07/06 | 75 | 74.1/135 | 1.1 | Chrysler Cl. of Greensboro
| 10/06/06 | 72 | 74.1/135 | 2.5 | Chrysler Cl. of Greensboro
* | 10/05/06 | 70 | 74.1/135 | 4.9 | Chrysler Cl. of Greensboro
* | 10/01/06 | 68 | 72.1/139 | 5.0 | S. Farm Bureau Cl.
* | 09/30/06 | 68 | 72.1/139 | 5.0 | S. Farm Bureau Cl.
* | 09/29/06 | 68 | 72.1/139 | 5.0 | S. Farm Bureau Cl.
* | 09/28/06 | 73 | 72.1/139 | 1.1 | S. Farm Bureau Cl.
---- -------- ----- -------- ----- ----------
Average Differential: 4.0
Best 10 Average Differential: 6.48
Handicap Index: +6.75

Closing Thoughts
In looking at the numbers I find myself in awe; I really can't
believe the numbers. An index of +6.75 just to
barely keep your card??? It makes you realize how good you really have to
be to make it on Tour.

 

[mcflog]

I remember an article several years ago talking about Tour pros home handicaps. One of the things I recall was that at one time Lanny Wadkins home handicap was +9 but he wouldn't play anyone giving more strokes than if he was +4.

If I get 9 a side (Tigers +13 my current 6)from anybody in a money game . I'm gonna be a very rich man in a short period of time.

 

[birdie_man]

You have to keep in mind that this time period that he used for everyone is when Tiger was on a run.......end of '06 to beginning of '07 season.....during the 7 in a row streak. (or however many it was)

Impressive streak of course.....and sure he still is better than everyone else.....but you have to take into account he was on a hot streak and everyone else was playing to whatever level they were playing to at the time.

 

[vjcapron]

Every single calculation in that post was dead wrong! Assuming the course ratings and the slope ratings were listed correctly, here is a more accurate assessment of Tiger's handicap differentials.

Used | Date | Score | CR/Slope | Diff. | Tournament
---- ---- ----- -------- ----- ----------
* | 01/28/07 | 66 | 78.1/143 | 15.3 | Buick Invitational
WRONG! Differential = -9.56

* | 01/27/07 | 69 | 78.1/143 | 11.5 | Buick Invitational
WRONG! Differential = -7.19

| 01/26/07 | 72 | 78.1/143 | 7.7 | Buick Invitational
WRONG! Differential = -4.8

| 01/27/07 | 66 | 78.1/143 | 8.3 | Buick Invitational
WRONG! Differential = -9.56

* | 09/04/06 | 63 | 74.8/143 | 14.9 | Deutsche Bank
WRONG! Differential = -9.32

I don't have time for this....anyway he's no plus 13.

 

[Chris Sturgess]

Yeah, plus 13 is absurd and way off. It would mean his normal round on a non tour setup course (from the back tees I hope) is going to be about a 59. A 59? No. A 65 maybe more like it. There are other factors that are left out the calculations there, like for example the greens on tour rolling much truer than some run of the mill course which makes it easier to make putts. Factoring in slope and course rating is fun and all but there are diminishing returns when it comes to scoring low. No matter how easy the course he still has to get it close and make a putt. It's not like if he played a course where every hole was dead straight with no elevation change and no bunker that's let's say 6700 yards he would shoot a 54 every time, or ever. Especially with greens that aren't tour prepared.

 

[shootin4par]

if you think shortgamer is wrong show him where he made an error, I am sure if he did it was not intentional. but going WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!
are you rude or bitter?

 

[Tom Bartlett]

Lucky Me!

I have had the priveledge to play several courses in their "tour setup," one being my home course at English Turn. I would get to play it just prior to the tournament and immediately afterward (still with the Sunday pins). I had my BEST rounds playing the courses in this "setup," First it is a misconseption that the back tees are played on every hole but, that is how I would play them for the greatest challenge. The greens...better than anything you will putt on and in my opinion easier. Fairways...no bad lies and if there are they are usually marked for "ground under." Rough might be a little taller but it is consistant. Bunkers...flawless. Same amount and type of sand in each one. Anyway, my personal best scores at these courses were during "tour conditions."

 

[shortgamer]

I DID NOT CREATE THIS THREAD. I pasted it from another forum. I have no idea if the math is right or wrong, I just thought it was interesting...

 

[Brian Manzella]

Playing Against Tiger.

You would choke you rear off, and you KNOW it.

Having said that, I need about a half-o-shot a hole.

 

[puttmad]

...

I have had the priveledge to play several courses in their "tour setup," one being my home course at English Turn. I would get to play it just prior to the tournament and immediately afterward (still with the Sunday pins). I had my BEST rounds playing the courses in this "setup," First it is a misconseption that the back tees are played on every hole but, that is how I would play them for the greatest challenge. The greens...better than anything you will putt on and in my opinion easier. Fairways...no bad lies and if there are they are usually marked for "ground under." Rough might be a little taller but it is consistant. Bunkers...flawless. Same amount and type of sand in each one. Anyway, my personal best scores at these courses were during "tour conditions."

Spot on Tom...

Notice how the pros moan when the sand in the bunkers is not consistent all around the course?....they need to go back to playing more on the "beaches" we play on all the time....

 

[self-mastery]

PRO players are spoiled brats. I loved watching them donking it up at shinnecock in 2004.

 

[birdie_man]

You would choke you rear off, and you KNOW it.

No way! (JOSE')

The moment he sees the 24 inch pythons he's done man.....

Eldrick would feel a fear he's never felt before. (stronger than first day of school with the name Eldrick)