Release feel

[tongzilla]

By release I mean the area roughly between the last parallel before impact and first parallel afterwards. My question is, for the majority of golfers out there, should they FEEL at release:

1) The right wrist flattening? I think the discussion we've had for the last year basically concluded that trying to hold a certain right wrist angle into impact is not a good idea for speed or accuracy.

2) Wrist rotation / torque / gamma? Personally, I think deliberately trying to not let the wrists rotate is a bad idea. But what about letting the club rotate the wrists "naturally" vs adding a bit of active rotation yourself? Or perhaps set of the twistaway feel at start down so it can free-wheel at release?

 

[Brian Manzella]

Here ya go, Leo!

ALPHA is getting the speed tot the clubhead ("the toss" FLAT to BENT middle three pics).

BETA is steadily going into negative (hand path is going in, hips and shoulders opening).

GAMMA is the twist (the down arch toward impact).


It's is precisely what I teach.


If you are not a slicer, you lay the club on the line slightly toe down, down arch/twist the shaft heading into impact, arching the left wrist to take off dynamic loft, and then toss it through in the direction of spiderman left hand, tabletop-like face cutting through the plane, turning into face on the plane in the swivel.

 

[tongzilla]

If you are not a slicer, you lay the club on the line slightly toe down, down arch/twist the shaft heading into impact, arching the left wrist to take off dynamic loft, and then toss it through in the direction of spiderman left hand, tabletop-like face cutting through the plane, turning into face on the plane in the swivel.

I hear you. But trying to go from flat-ish at the top to down arch then quickly to bent again...these are sort of opposing forces you're trying to achieve in a very short space of time...seem a bit difficult to do.

 

[Brian Manzella]

I hear you. But trying to go from flat-ish at the top to down arch then quickly to bent again...these are sort of opposing forces you're trying to achieve in a very short space of time...seem a bit difficult to do.

Just focus on the one you don't do yet.

The ALPHA, now known as (Enso-pro) Handle-Rotation, is 80% of clubhead speed!!!

 

[hp12c]

Just focus on the one you don't do yet.

The ALPHA, now known as (Enso-pro) Handle-Rotation, is 80% of clubhead speed!!!

Bmanz u saying "ALPHA is quickly going into negative ("the toss" FLAT to BENT middle three pics)". thats where 80% of the club speed is!

 

[Brian Manzella]

I'm just reporting it.

 

[hp12c]

I'm just reporting it.

Bmanz that response sound like a politicians answer. Do you agree with that conclusion?

 

[tongzilla]

Bmanz that response sound like a politicians answer. Do you agree with that conclusion?

Fact is fact whether you agree with it or not. Accept reality. Now lets try play better golf...

 

[Mike Richardson]

Just focus on the one you don't do yet.

The ALPHA, now known as (Enso-pro) Handle-Rotation, is 80% of clubhead speed!!!

Is this "toss" move what you tried/discovered when you did your second test on the ENSO machine and significantly increased your speed?

 

[art]

I'm just reporting it.

Dear Brian,

Please see my extensive post and if time permits, please comment on ROC # 175 of "Thread: Hinge Action, Rate of Closure, and what you SHOULD do with the club-face (p9 pic)". I purposely did not present any data or analyses there to try to obtain sufficient believable evidence as to what the contribution of ROC was to club head speed.

So, without full ENSO based numbers, I spent many hours reviewing what data I did have at home, and with the work I have done and will document here if requested, I presently find it IMPOSSIBLE to believe that 80% of club head speed is generated by ROC. My work included calculating the starting conditions of the ROC either from when the club is at last parallel, or to avoid some controversy, even when the ROC started at the top of the back swing.

So, please before I jump thru another significant analytical hoop, PLEASE elucidate on what you have reported for my/our benefit, and let us see if that source, like one of my previous posts, has an error in it.

If I am reading this string correctly, 80% of the total club head speed being generated during the time frame depicted from the pictures posted above doesn't pass my smell test, but then again, it may be the shingles.

 

[drewyallop]

"And away we go" ... J. Gleason

 

[drewyallop]

Just focus on the one you don't do yet.

The ALPHA, now known as (Enso-pro) Handle-Rotation, is 80% of clubhead speed!!!

Now I am confused. I thought Gamma was the cause of handle rotation.

 

[Bigwill]

Dear Brian,

Please see my extensive post and if time permits, please comment on ROC # 175 of "Thread: Hinge Action, Rate of Closure, and what you SHOULD do with the club-face (p9 pic)". I purposely did not present any data or analyses there to try to obtain sufficient believable evidence as to what the contribution of ROC was to club head speed.

So, without full ENSO based numbers, I spent many hours reviewing what data I did have at home, and with the work I have done and will document here if requested, I presently find it IMPOSSIBLE to believe that 80% of club head speed is generated by ROC. My work included calculating the starting conditions of the ROC either from when the club is at last parallel, or to avoid some controversy, even when the ROC started at the top of the back swing.

So, please before I jump thru another significant analytical hoop, PLEASE elucidate on what you have reported for my/our benefit, and let us see if that source, like one of my previous posts, has an error in it.

If I am reading this string correctly, 80% of the total club head speed being generated during the time frame depicted from the pictures posted above doesn't pass my smell test, but then again, it may be the shingles.

If I understand all of this correctly, the alpha torque (the one that basically advances the club along the plane it's swinging) is the one most closely related to what enso calls handle-rotation. This alpha torque starts before the point in the swing displayed by the pictures.

This handle-rotation isn't the one that is related to gamma torque (twisting the shaft about itself, which is what this ROC is related to). Rather, it's measuring the rotation about the coupling point (what you can see as the clubhead moving forward while the butt of the club moves backward when looking at the golfer from face on).

How'd I do?

 

[66er]

Alpha force being force applied on the plane, handle rotating also on the plane force, seeing as alpha is known as just handle Rotation on enso pro, so handle rotation being alpha on Enso pro is = 80%. Now are you saying handle rotation is equal to 80% of clubhead speed or is 80% of clubhead speed is alpha(Handle rotation on Enso). What percentage of alpha is solely handle rotation?? I would imagine a lot as its simply referred to as handle rotation on the enso. Sorry for poor wording.

 

[puttmaster]

If I understand all of this correctly, the alpha torque (the one that basically advances the club along the plane it's swinging) is the one most closely related to what enso calls handle-rotation. This alpha torque starts before the point in the swing displayed by the pictures.

This handle-rotation isn't the one that is related to gamma torque (twisting the shaft about itself, which is what this ROC is related to). Rather, it's measuring the rotation about the coupling point (what you can see as the clubhead moving forward while the butt of the club moves backward when looking at the golfer from face on).

How'd I do?

That matches my understanding, Bigwill, (which isn't saying much ). I think the illustration is primarily showing the portion of Alpha as it is going into negative, not the entire Alpha force.

 

[natep]

Now I am confused. I thought Gamma was the cause of handle rotation.

ENSO measures how fast the bottom of the grip moves past the top of the grip, from a face on view, and it calls this "handle rotation".

This ENSO "handle rotation" value is not a twisting of the the shaft a la Nesbit's Gamma.



It can be confusing.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

"And away we go" ... J. Gleason

I prefer

"Annnd heeere weee goooo" ... joker (Dark Knight)

 

[drewyallop]

ENSO measures how fast the bottom of the grip moves past the top of the grip, from a face on view, and it calls this "handle rotation".

This ENSO "handle rotation" value is not a twisting of the the shaft a la Nesbit's Gamma.



It can be confusing.

Thanks Natep, that clears it up. I just reread Nesbit's paper and a bunch of other questions popped up. I am going to start another thread on "ABG" torques.

Drew

 

[hp12c]

Fact is fact whether you agree with it or not. Accept reality. Now lets try play better golf...

Yo Tongz, where in my ? did I say I didnt agree or dispute it as fact? Re read my post.

 

[dschultz6072]

Brian, you say if you are not a slicer. If you are a slicer, then what? Hold the twist and swing it through till wedding ring up? Trying to get a buddy to stop slicing.

I ask because to my understanding both the spiderman hand and the NSA move both get the face closed. When I accidentally bring in a bit of NSA twist action into the mix I get some nasty closed face shots.