Release

[mandrin]

Release - 1

Release means to let go of some form of restraint - “To set free from confinement, restraint, or bondage”.

There are various ways people refer to release but let’s just take above as a general definition. It might be taken as the containment of the golf club close to the body being released away from the body prior to and through impact.

There is usually a mixture of referring to release as how release occurs, the entity being released and the timing of the release.

Experienced golfers will likely agree that an accurate release can’t be triggered consciously and has to happen by itself. So what is it that might be causing this release to happen by itself?

Moreover what is being released during release? Are there just angles being released, or perhaps the TGM power accumulators, is it some energy being converted into clubhead speed or is it perhaps some force/torque accelerating the clubhead?

Scientists such as Prof Jorgensen. (The Physics of Golf), Steven Nesbit et all (A 3D Kinematic and Kinetic study of the Golf Swing / Work and Power analysis of the Golf Swing), or the group of English scientists Cochran et all. (Search for the Perfect Golf Swing) refer to centrifugal force/torque generated in the downswing.

Could it be indeed be some centrifugal/centripetal force acting through the swing center causing release and when release happens is it free flowing or does it have to be sustained and if so how?

Just asking some questions.

 

[Dariusz J.]

Mandrin, you may laugh, but I am of the opinion that release and all kinetic chain slapping happens because our brains know that the main goal is to put another object (a golf ball) in motion by means of our clubs. It happens, or better said, should happen automatically, as you said.
If, hypothetically, the main goal of a golf swing was to swing a club around the body (without hitting anything) there won't be any release and, therefore, any problems with an improper release execution. I am not a physician, but I think that we should define what forces act during such a free golf swing and then to think what our brain tells to our body to 'modify' objective physical forces when our main goal will be again putting another object in motion.

Just my 3 eurocents, cheers.

P.S. If you remember our discussion about a very flexible shafts with lowest possible torque (according to your theory and diagrams) and their possible impact contributing to achieving a bigger SS with a driver combo - I will soon test it on myself when I'll make my test combo (I have all the components, must only find the best spine allignment of the shaft and the best amount of additional weighting of the driver head). Will comunicate the results for you and others here on the Forum.

 

[aaron_lohan]

Release means to let go of some form of restraint - “To set free from confinement, restraint, or bondage”.

There are various ways people refer to release but let’s just take above as a general definition. It might be taken as the containment of the golf club close to the body being released away from the body prior to and through impact.

There is usually a mixture of referring to release as how release occurs, the entity being released and the timing of the release.

Experienced golfers will likely agree that an accurate release can’t be triggered consciously and has to happen by itself. So what is it that might be causing this release to happen by itself?

Moreover what is being released during release? Are there just angles being released, or perhaps the TGM power accumulators, is it some energy being converted into clubhead speed or is it perhaps some force/torque accelerating the clubhead?

Scientists such as Prof Jorgensen. (The Physics of Golf), Steven Nesbit et all (A 3D Kinematic and Kinetic study of the Golf Swing / Work and Power analysis of the Golf Swing), or the group of English scientists Cochran et all. (Search for the Perfect Golf Swing) refer to centrifugal force/torque generated in the downswing.

Could it be indeed be some centrifugal/centripetal force acting through the swing center causing release and when release happens is it free flowing or does it have to be sustained and if so how?

Just asking some questions.

what would happen if you didnt release? i think jorgensen mentioned it in his book iirc

keep asking those questions though

 

[mandrin]

what would happen if you didnt release? i think jorgensen mentioned it in his book iirc

keep asking those questions though

aaron_lohan,

A friend of Jorgensen trying to do so snapped the shaft near the lower part of the grip. Examination of the shaft showed no indication of any flaw in the metal.

 

[Leek]

I don't really know, but to me it FEELS like when my hips complete their pivot, they stop or at least slow down, then it snaps the chain and causes a "release" or what I think is throwout action.

 

[hiroshiro]

There are various ways people refer to release ... (i)t might be taken as the containment of the golf club close to the body being released away from the body prior to and through impact.

Mandrin, that is a wonderful description and image of release.

 

[BurnItUp]

Which of the following best describes Ping Man's release:

1) Sweep
2) Random
3) Snap

 

[mandrin]

Mandrin, you may laugh, but I am of the opinion that release and all kinetic chain slapping happens because our brains know that the main goal is to put another object (a golf ball) in motion by means of our clubs. It happens, or better said, should happen automatically, as you said.
If, hypothetically, the main goal of a golf swing was to swing a club around the body (without hitting anything) there won't be any release and, therefore, any problems with an improper release execution. I am not a physician, but I think that we should define what forces act during such a free golf swing and then to think what our brain tells to our body to 'modify' objective physical forces when our main goal will be again putting another object in motion.

Just my 3 eurocents, cheers.

P.S. If you remember our discussion about a very flexible shafts with lowest possible torque (according to your theory and diagrams) and their possible impact contributing to achieving a bigger SS with a driver combo - I will soon test it on myself when I'll make my test combo (I have all the components, must only find the best spine allignment of the shaft and the best amount of additional weighting of the driver head). Will comunicate the results for you and others here on the Forum.

Dariusz,

Try to swing a golf club without a ball present and even do your best not to release on purpose. In a normal golf swing it is almost impossible to prevent it to happen.

 

[Dariusz J.]

Mandrin,

I know what you're thinking about, I guess.
However, look at this subject in a view of a biomechanical fact that your turning body slows down and "loads" just before hitting the ball, because there is a ball that must be hit.
If there is no ball, the body does not slow down since both hips and upper torso ARE IN A PHYSICAL POSITION to turn further with the same speed, and the "release" will happen when there is no possibility for a bigger turn. So, yes, you are right, the "release" must happen somewhen (that's the way we are built) but I do not see any reason that it must happen, say, so early...unless the gravity and the weight of a club plays more important role in the model process, than I think.

Cheers

 

[mandrin]

Mandrin,

I know what you're thinking about, I guess.
However, look at this subject in a view of a biomechanical fact that your turning body slows down and "loads" just before hitting the ball, because there is a ball that must be hit.
If there is no ball, the body does not slow down since both hips and upper torso ARE IN A PHYSICAL POSITION to turn further with the same speed, and the "release" will happen when there is no possibility for a bigger turn. So, yes, you are right, the "release" must happen somewhen (that's the way we are built) but I do not see any reason that it must happen, say, so early...unless the gravity and the weight of a club plays more important role in the model process, than I think.

Cheers

Dariusz,

I don’t know quite what to say it being so obvious that one can produce an identical swing with and without ball. Your arguments are perhaps valid for the very first part of the downswing. Here indeed the intention and learned motion play a dominant role.

However as soon as the down swing starts gathering speed large inertial torques are generated which help considerably putting the swing on automatic pilot, aiding substantially in producing an accurate repeatable release motion.

 

[Dariusz J.]

Dariusz,

I don’t know quite what to say it being so obvious that one can produce an identical swing with and without ball. Your arguments are perhaps valid for the very first part of the downswing. Here indeed the intention and learned motion play a dominant role.

However as soon as the down swing starts gathering speed large inertial torques are generated which help considerably putting the swing on automatic pilot, aiding substantially in producing an accurate repeatable release motion.

Mandrin,
I apologize for being unclear. What I intended to say was that it may all be in our brain, to a not so small degree. When you, a golfer, make a swing without a ball, but you want to swing the way it looks normal (e.g. for practice reasons), in fact you are hitting a virtual, non-existing ball.
But, if your only goal is to swing the club as smooth as possible to the finish (perhaps it would be much easier for a person who has never had any contact with golf), and you set your brain for this goal - why should it force your body and arms to release exactly in "standard golf release point " if your body and arms are in a position to swing further smoothly with the same speed ?

Cheers

 

[mandrin]

Mandrin,
I apologize for being unclear. What I intended to say was that it may all be in our brain, to a not so small degree. When you, a golfer, make a swing without a ball, but you want to swing the way it looks normal (e.g. for practice reasons), in fact you are hitting a virtual, non-existing ball.
But, if your only goal is to swing the club as smooth as possible to the finish (perhaps it would be much easier for a person who has never had any contact with golf), and you set your brain for this goal - why should it force your body and arms to release exactly in "standard golf release point " if your body and arms are in a position to swing further smoothly with the same speed ?

Cheers

Dariusz,

One has to make a distinction between the applied forces and the internal inertial forces engendered as a consequence.

Contracting muscles set the golf swing into motion. However once motion exits one has inevitably inertial forces due to this motion.

An inertial centrifugal torque is generated in a down swing due to the rotational motion created in the down swing.

This latter torque is not a product of the brain but inherent in the dynamics of the golfer/club ensemble.

 

[mandrin]

The golf swing is largely rotary. As a rather natural consequence scientists and non-scientists alike have been referring frequently to centrifugal force to explain the release action. We definitely feel this inertial centrifugal force/torque acting on the club and much golf discussion/literature/discussion is concerned with this action.

Let’s start at a very fundamental level and imagine the club to be constrained to one swing plane. Moreover the grip end is constrained to move along the line AA” as shown in Fig1. Therefore there is only the possibility of application of a linear external force to be exerted on the golf club by the golfer parallel to the target line.

Hence we have a club moving on plane and the grip end constrained to move in-plane parallel to the target line. Is there anything we can learn from this very reduced and simple setup? For one thing it makes us realize that a strictly linear force can produce a torque on the golf club and hence rotational motion.

For more information have a look here.

 

[Dariusz J.]

Brilliant, Mandrin.

As a non-physician, I may draw two conclusions, hoping that they are not out of line:

1) The weight and length of the club is directly responsible for release happening in the bottom of the swing arc;

2) It confirms why all beginners are flippers - they subconsciously stop the force F directly over the ball in search for biggest possible ball speed; a forward shaft lean at impact appears to be not natural since it requires the force F to exist a tad longer, resulting in obtaining a bit smaller ball speed than optimal; it would also confirm why so many people struggle with flipping - they simply need to find a way to "deceive" their subconsciousness.

Cheers

 

[Leek]

I've come to hate the term "release". I think it gives me a mental image that produces a number of damaging actions. I've begun to use the term "throw out action".

 

[teeithigh]

freddy couples has said that when he feels a great release it feels like someone with a giant pair of scissors has snapped his shaft into two....

 

[mandrin]

Brilliant, Mandrin.

As a non-physician, I may draw two conclusions, hoping that they are not out of line:

1) The weight and length of the club is directly responsible for release happening in the bottom of the swing arc;

2) It confirms why all beginners are flippers - they subconsciously stop the force F directly over the ball in search for biggest possible ball speed; a forward shaft lean at impact appears to be not natural since it requires the force F to exist a tad longer, resulting in obtaining a bit smaller ball speed than optimal; it would also confirm why so many people struggle with flipping - they simply need to find a way to "deceive" their subconsciousness.

Cheers

Dariusz,

It is indeed tempting to draw conclusions but better be careful. Very simple models are great to isolate, illustrate and emphasize certain features but they can’t cope with all of the complex interplay of factors at work in real situations.

The only immediate cause and responsibility lies with the force applied. Thereafter the properties of the slender homogeneous segment, i.e., value of mass and in particular the specific mass distribution comes into play. Indeed when the force is removed they remain as the only parameters.

I rather feel that beginners sense the need to get the ball into the air using the trail side with a scoping motion. This is an active release motion with actually reduces the velocity potential of the clubhead. It is by looking for retainment that as a byproduct greater clubhead velocity is likely obtained in addition to superior impact alignments.

Golf is a game of paradoxes. It has a touch of Zen.

 

[mandrin]

I've come to hate the term "release". I think it gives me a mental image that produces a number of damaging actions.

Such as ….?

I've begun to use the term "throw out action".

What are you ‘throwing’ now compared to what you ‘released’ before?

 

[curtisj76]

freddy couples has said that when he feels a great release it feels like someone with a giant pair of scissors has snapped his shaft into two....

I don't get this for some reason?

 

[mandrin]

Straight line golfer learning fast

The 'straight line golfer' applies a linear pulling force. This force can be decomposed into a couple and a linear force as shown in Figs 1a and 1b. The force F has hence two effects. It accelerates the club along the line of application of the force and moreover it exerts a torque on the club trying to align the club with the force vector.

However as soon as the clubhead drops below the horizontal the couple acting on the club reverses in sign and starting to slow down the angular releases motion, Fig1b. How can we prevent this from happening? Just as in a real golf swing by constantly changing the force vector's direction so as to maintain an appropriate angle between club and force F.

The force F, by constantly changing direction, is much more efficient creating a rapidly accelerating angular release motion. This is illustrated in Figs 2 and 3. This brings us to the subject of effective swing radius - perhaps matter of analysis for another post, i.e., if there is at least evidence of some minimum interest.