Remove the reward

[wulsy]

I have read a few posts lately, including this one from DC about "removing the reward", apparently a Manzella-ism which Kevin Shields also endorsed. Clearly a concept which makes a lot of sense and one which I had independently discovered and used.

From an entirely empirical perspective, I believe one can change a motion IF and only if the ball flight is changed. Someone mentioned taking away the reward, I might change that to changing the reward. I believe the correction for a slice is a hook for a period of time. For the same reason the player started hitting slices in the first place-by reacting to the flight of the golf ball. Golf is a reactive game, not a proactive one. We all react to one of two things: the shot we just hit or the shot we usually hit. I have rarely seen this to fail in 30 years of teaching. All the drills in the world will not change anything if the golf ball keeps curving to the right. Even Hogan didn't practice with the wind at his back for this very reason. Reaction. Give them a strong grip, ball back, closed stance, early release, whatever you have to do to get the ball to draw/hook for two weeks and I'll bet the move changes.

But in order to remove the reward you have to DEFINE it first. Hence a thread which highlights "problems" and which reward the golfer has by using them.

I'll start:

AoA too steep. What's the reward?

 

[Lindsey Newman]

AoA too steep. Reward is fake forward lean and solid-ish iron shots

 

[wulsy]

What about AoA too steep with real forward lean?

 

[ej20]

AoA too steep. What's the reward?

You get to carry the divot back to the crater with both hands like a baby.

 

[wulsy]

Yup, and I'm not prepared to give that up for anything. I like to shake it about to prove that it'll stay in one piece on the way back to the crater. I AM the KING of DIVOTANTIA!

 

[Lindsey Newman]

What about AoA too steep with real forward lean?

Kevin Shields and I like to tee up 7 irons about an inch. Then try to rip it out of the middle with what feel like swinging up. That way, if you get steep, you'll hit it high on the face. That would be one way to take away the reward

 

[hp12c]

You get to carry the divot back to the crater with both hands like a baby.

Been there and do that, Beaver pelt anyone?

 

[cwdlaw223]

Kevin Shields and I like to tee up 7 irons about an inch. Then try to rip it out of the middle with what feel like swinging up. That way, if you get steep, you'll hit it high on the face. That would be one way to take away the reward

Lindsey -

Do you generally pick your 7 iron through 3 iron shots (par threes or from the fairway)? Do you take a healthy divot for 8 iron down? Curious. I've generally taken beaver pelts for all iron shots and need to change.

 

[Lindsey Newman]

Lindsey -

Do you generally pick your 7 iron through 3 iron shots (par threes or from the fairway)? Do you take a healthy divot for 8 iron down? Curious. I've generally taken beaver pelts for all iron shots and need to change.

A year ago yes. Divot with everything and the shorter the deeper. If it was wet - goodnight, but the good thing is they were easy to replace. I've gotten to the point now where I am still taking divots with wedges and short irons, but none with long irons and scrapes with 5 and 6.

 

[DCgolf]

Well theres a difference here. AA is not ball flight, it is an impact condition which may cause a certain ball flight, to which the player would then react. However, if the shot is hit FAT, there is a different reaction to consistently laying sod over it. Chicken winging, standing up, opening the face etc.

 

[DCgolf]

It's the typical correcting a fault with a fault syndrome that a lot of mid-high handicappers are into...my point is the chicken wing etc will not go away until i shallow the angle. The shortening the radius would then cause a top.

 

[spktho]

Hips sliding forward: Reward =not hit it fat?

Fixes?

 

[Brian Manzella]

Generally, with the little orange guy running at all times, I just put something in the way of strike that is too far back on the arc (which is what Angle of Attack is).

I like to break the straight part off of a tee and put it out in front where the golfer should miss it. Works like a charm.

Of course TrackMan is checking everything.

Sans TM, you might want to put a string line up that the golfer has to hit under.

Another thing that would work well with the string line, is a golf grip as the "thing to miss."


♫ Over the grip and under the string.....♫

 

[Kevin Shields]

I have read a few posts lately, including this one from DC about "removing the reward", apparently a Manzella-ism which Kevin Shields also endorsed. Clearly a concept which makes a lot of sense and one which I had independently discovered and used.



But in order to remove the reward you have to DEFINE it first. Hence a thread which highlights "problems" and which reward the golfer has by using them.

I'll start:

AoA too steep. What's the reward?

The reward comes from the cover up of the root problem. For instance, you get rewarded in ur mind for hitting a fairway by doing a bad move like rolling the face because ur path is way out to the right. So if you take away the roll, they are no longer rewarded with decent shots.

So in the attack angle example, a golfer could get rewarded by standing up and losing shaft lean the shallow out the swing and get rewarded by not sticking it in the ground and shoveling it straight. Give him too steep AoA and forward lean there is no reward.....un playable ballflght

 

[Kevin Shields]

Been there and do that, Beaver pelt anyone?

Beaver shoot maybe

 

[DCgolf]

Yea like show me somebody who comes way over it and I'll show you a guy who throws the club head it. Why? So he can actually hit it! Show me a guy with a big out hand path and I'll bet he stands the club up. Why. So he doesn't shank it! And so on. They are quite ingenous at matching components. Bad behavior is rewarded all the time just to put the club on it at all!

 

[Erik_K]

Brian -

About how high would the string be off the ground? Maybe 8 inches or so? I suppose if the string is too high, the training aid loses any real benefit. I like the string idea because it's very easy to see the ball, yet you have an obstacle to swing under.

Erik

 

[gailfcno]

Generally, with the little orange guy running at all times, I just put something in the way of strike that is too far back on the arc (which is what Angle of Attack is).

I like to break the straight part off of a tee and put it out in front where the golfer should miss it. Works like a charm.

Of course TrackMan is checking everything.

Sans TM, you might want to put a string line up that the golfer has to hit under.

Another thing that would work well with the string line, is a golf grip as the "thing to miss."


♫ Over the grip and under the string.....♫

im having a hard time visualising this brian where would the grip be positioned and where would the string be placed.