Right Shoulder

[Jim Blackwell]

Today I concentrated on the right shoulder going directly to the ball. Am I correct in this assumption? If I use the pane of glass theory the shoulders should stay under the pane, with the strike going out to the right. I stayed in the shot much longer and the hits were much stronger.

 

[MoonNerd]

Jim,

I read recently Brian's tip about "putting your right shoulder in your right pocket" to get it on the correct plane. Wow! It felt great, and solved several problems I've been having. It also helps me get my hands in front of the ball much better at impact.

 

[rundmc]

There was a great post on Chuck Evan's site from Yoda/Holenone concerning this. He proposed a drill that would be helpful I think.

It went something like this . . .

Get your driver and put the clubhead on your right shoulder as if you were going to fire a rifle. The turn your shoulders keeping your head still moving the club on a horizontal plane. The he said bend at the waist until the shaft points at your plane line. From there turn your shoulders so the shaft will trace the plane line.

Made sense to me. Check out Chuck's site it's out there somewhere. I'm just too lazy to find it. If it comes from Yoda you can bet your house that it's TGM correct.

 

[DDL]

Putting the right shoulder in the right pocket caused a plane shift for me, leaving my shoulder stuck behind. To me, the right shoulder is pretty damned difficult to monitor. Aiming my right shoulder at the ball causes upper body lunging or simply my right shoulder moving but my upper body not rotating.

I have gotten better (initial,as usual) results by gently rotating my right shoulder against the pressure in my left armpit, thus rotating my upper body without lunging. When I see my right shoulder out of the corner of my eye, I then fire/swing through.

Thx for Chuck's drill. That looks like the perfect way to monitor if the right shoulder is on plane.

 

[goodgolf57]

From my TGM notes on Brian and Yoda's posts:

Now to your question and how to determine the exact amount of waist bend:

1. Get your Driver.

2. Standing about Driver distance from the Ball, think of the Driver as a hunting rifle. Put the Clubhead into your Right Shoulder and hold the Club just as you would aim a rifle. Get the Feel of the Rotated Shoulder Turn at first just by keeping your rifle barrel level with the ground, and turn from left to right and back again, over and over, getting the Feel of the perfectly level shoulder rotation. Pretend you're in a carnival shooting gallery and you are knocking off ducks at various points on the never-ending line of the conveyer belt. Make sure you are taking 'dead aim' by sighting directly down the 'rifle barrel' using your right eye.

3. Once you've got this motion down pat -- should take less than a minute! -- we need to move off the horizontal plane and onto the exact Rotated Shoulder Plane. So...

Keeping the 'butt' of your 'rifle' into your right shoulder -- and not dropping your arms in the slightest. Careful, this is the tendency! The 'rifle' must remain in the same relation with the Right Shoulder as it did in the horizontal drill above -- bend forward from the waist until you are 'aiming' your rifle (the butt-end of the Club) directly at the Plane Line.

This is the exact amount of waist bend you need to accomodate the On Plane Rotated Shoulder Turn in both directions.

Taking this a little farther, after you've located the exact waist bend, get the Feel of the On Plane Rotated Shoulder Turn motion by rotating the shoulders (at right angles to the spine) the same way you did when you were 'aiming' in the horizontal plane, but this time 'aim the rifle' at the Plane line and 'Trace' it in both directions of the turn.

Summarizing:

1. To determine the exact waist bend, 'shoot' the Plane Line with your 'Right Shoulder rifle.'

2. To maintain the Right Shoulder on its Rotated Shoulder Plane, 'Trace' the Plane Line with your 'rifle barrel!'
_________________
Yoda

 

[holenone]

Remember, guys, the above post discussed the Rotated Shoulder Turn. It was in response to a question regarding how to determine the exact amount of Waist Bend necessary to produce an On Plane Stroke in both directions. However, this Shoulder Turn requires Zero Axis Tilt and hence Zero Weight Shift. That's fine for the Backstroke, but it means a Low Power Downstroke. Therefore, it should be restricted to Short Shots.

The ideal Shoulder Turn is the Standard Variation of 10-13-A. This involves a Backstroke Turn 'as Flat as possible' back to the Plane, followed by a Downstroke Turn down the Plane.

The drill of 'shooting the rifle at the Plane Line' on the Downstroke works for all On Plane Strokes involving Shoulder Turn. It should not be used to determine the Waist Bend except as described for the Rotated Shoulder Turn.

 

[rundmc]

"The ideal Shoulder Turn is the Standard Variation of 10-13-A. This involves a Backstroke Turn 'as Flat as possible' back to the Plane, followed by a Downstroke Turn down the Plane.

The drill of 'shooting the rifle at the Plane Line' on the Downstroke works for all On Plane Strokes involving Shoulder Turn. It should not be used to determine the Waist Bend except as described for the Rotated Shoulder Turn."

Yoda,

Would you mind expanding on the above? I'm not sure I understand the difference between the ROTATED SHOULDER TURN and STANDARD VARIATION.

So if we keep the rifle thing going . . .

On Standard, aim the rifle more "horizontal" on the backstroke and then down on plane on the downstroke?

George Clinton "Get up on the downstroke."

Yoda "No. Get DOWN on the downstroke."

 

[holenone]

quote:Originally posted by njmp2

quote:Originally posted by holenone

Remember, guys, the above post discussed the Rotated Shoulder Turn. It was in response to a question regarding how to determine the exact amount of Waist Bend necessary to produce an On Plane Stroke in both directions. However, this Shoulder Turn requires Zero Axis Tilt and hence Zero Weight Shift. That's fine for the Backstroke, but it means a Low Power Downstroke. Therefore, it should be restricted to Short Shots.

The ideal Shoulder Turn is the Standard Variation of 10-13-A. This involves a Backstroke Turn 'as Flat as possible' back to the Plane, followed by a Downstroke Turn down the Plane.

The drill of 'shooting the rifle at the Plane Line' on the Downstroke works for all On Plane Strokes involving Shoulder Turn. It should not be used to determine the Waist Bend except as described for the Rotated Shoulder Turn.

And with the right forearm take away? The forearm would trace any plane it chooses? Waist bend would be determined by?
So many questions, only one yoda to answer.

The Right Forearm is positioned ideally on the Turned Shoulder Plane at Impact Fix (2-F). It remains on that Plane, even in Adjusted Address. In Start-Up the Right Forearm takes the Club immediately Up, Back and In on the Turned Shoulder Plane. In so doing, it Traces the Straight Line Base Line of that Plane (2-N-0). The Knee and Waist Bend are established by the Player at Impact Fix and are determined by the distance the Hips must move to allow the Right Forearm to point at the Turned Shoulder Plane Line (7-16).

 

[corky05]

(Holenone quote)Forearm takes the Club immediately Up, Back and In on the Turned Shoulder Plane. In so doing, it Traces the Straight Line Base Line of that Plane (2-N-0). (Unquote)

Holenone, How do you ensure that you keep some distance between your hands and body with regards to the above quoted move? Thanks, in advance.

 

[holenone]

quote:Originally posted by corky05

Posted by Holenone "The Right Forearm takes the Club immediately Up, Back and In on the Turned Shoulder Plane. In so doing, it Traces the Straight Line Base Line of that Plane (2-N-0)."

Holenone, How do you ensure that you keep some distance between your hands and body with regards to the above quoted move? Thanks, in advance.

First, train your Pivot -- particularly the Right Hip -- to 'get out of the way of the Hands.'

Second, assume correct Impact Fix Alignments. For example, (1) Make sure your Left Wrist is Flat, Level and Vertical and pointing down the Angle of Approach; (2) Position your Right Forearm On Plane (pointing at the Plane Line); and (3) bend your Knees and Waist as required to accomplish these alignments and keep your Head Stationary.

Third, apply Extensor Action throughout the Stroke.

Fourth, stay On Plane. Use the Right Forearm, the #3 Pressure Point and the selected Delivery Line (or Path) to get you to the Top and back down again. Returning to the above pre-determined Fix alignments -- especially the Right Forearm's Fix Alignment (its own Angle of Approach) -- should be your primary focus. Everything else just 'gets out of the way!" This is why Homer states (in 3-B), "Your attention span must be at least as long as your swing."

 

[corky05]

Thanks!

 

[bcoak]

bump

 

[holenone]

quote:Originally posted by holenone

quote:Originally posted by corky05

Posted by Holenone "The Right Forearm takes the Club immediately Up, Back and In on the Turned Shoulder Plane. In so doing, it Traces the Straight Line Base Line of that Plane (2-N-0)."

Holenone, How do you ensure that you keep some distance between your hands and body with regards to the above quoted move? Thanks, in advance.

First, train your Pivot -- particularly the Right Hip -- to 'get out of the way of the Hands.'

One point of clarification on the above statement regarding training the Pivot. Such training is necessary to enable the Hands to remain On Plane throughout the Stroke. And while it is helpful in avoiding Body/Hands collisions, it is not mandatory. That's because if the Body is in the way, the Hands will simply go around!

So, no collisions, but no good Shots, either.

 

[njmp2]

quote:Originally posted by holenone

quote:Originally posted by njmp2

quote:Originally posted by holenone

Remember, guys, the above post discussed the Rotated Shoulder Turn. It was in response to a question regarding how to determine the exact amount of Waist Bend necessary to produce an On Plane Stroke in both directions. However, this Shoulder Turn requires Zero Axis Tilt and hence Zero Weight Shift. That's fine for the Backstroke, but it means a Low Power Downstroke. Therefore, it should be restricted to Short Shots.

The ideal Shoulder Turn is the Standard Variation of 10-13-A. This involves a Backstroke Turn 'as Flat as possible' back to the Plane, followed by a Downstroke Turn down the Plane.

The drill of 'shooting the rifle at the Plane Line' on the Downstroke works for all On Plane Strokes involving Shoulder Turn. It should not be used to determine the Waist Bend except as described for the Rotated Shoulder Turn.

And with the right forearm take away? The forearm would trace any plane it chooses? Waist bend would be determined by?
So many questions, only one yoda to answer.

The Right Forearm is positioned ideally on the Turned Shoulder Plane at Impact Fix (2-F). It remains on that Plane, even in Adjusted Address. In Start-Up the Right Forearm takes the Club immediately Up, Back and In on the Turned Shoulder Plane. In so doing, it Traces the Straight Line Base Line of that Plane (2-N-0). The Knee and Waist Bend are established by the Player at Impact Fix and are determined by the distance the Hips must move to allow the Right Forearm to point at the Turned Shoulder Plane Line (7-16).

Thank You. Now the stupid questions:
1- if the right wrist establishes its proper bend at impact fix. Up,Back and In becomes possible by moving the right elbow like a piston past a pre turned hip?
2- if so, would that piston move be the in and up and extensor action the back? Back is different then in, how?
late night confussion.
I understand the tracing of the forearm, pp3 tracing the line like a flashlight, when does the left shoulder turn? I feel the right shoulder move almost immedately with the forearm. Is the left pulled or dragged late by the bending right elbow?

My backswing changes 18 times a round.

 

[Brian Manzella]

It really is pretty darn simple.

You simply use the 'right forearm pickup' to take the hands to the top (or the end).

You use the hands to themselves to impact, taking the right shoulder with them.

Flat shoulder turn backstroke, om-plane shoulder turn downstroke.