Robert Grober lecture in July 2006......

[Michael Finney]

go to minute 40:00 and listen for about 15 minutes if you're interested.........discusses how in the double pendulum model the "hands" slow down to give speed to the club head.......thought some may want to watch...the entire lecture is great if you have 90 minutes free......the 3D models say some different things

[video=google;-5667958538796331176]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5667958538796331176[/video]​

 

[birly-shirly]

Are you saying that the 3D models say something different with regard to the hands slowing down towards impact?

also, how do you feel about the "handpath" shown around 48:30?

 

[JonWil]

Michael,
Very interesting; thanks for posting.

 

[golfdad]

Thank you for the video. Good info. Since the video is from 2006, it's delayed release in a different sense

 

[savydan]

good one, gd.

 

[Robbohank]

Thank you for the video. Good info. Since the video is from 2006, it's delayed release in a different sense

I haven't watched this video in a while, but I do remember being struck by the fact that most of the subjects from the audience that swung his invention seemed to making more noise AFTER the impact area and not before as (I think) Grober was expecting.

 

[Mike O]

Are you saying that the 3D models say something different with regard to the hands slowing down towards impact?

also, how do you feel about the "handpath" shown around 48:30?

He talks about that - in that, it's a very simplified model and doesn't include things like "transitory movement" i.e. lateral movement towards the target, etc. Which would bring the hands closer to the target on the downswing, creating a somewhat different hand path going down as coming back.

 

[golfdad]

I haven't watched this video in a while, but I do remember being struck by the fact that most of the subjects from the audience that swung his invention seemed to making more noise AFTER the impact area and not before as (I think) Grober was expecting.

Perhaps the natural instinct to release--not necessarily the most optimal release that comes with understanding and training--is indeed present in some folks, as demonstrated.

I am curious if any posters here have tried and found his invention helpful,,the one that sounds off the swing speed,,,not that i need to buy yet another gizmo for my kids who will touch it once and leave it on the basement floor!!!

 

[JDMAC]

Perhaps the natural instinct to release--not necessarily the most optimal release that comes with understanding and training--is indeed present in some folks, as demonstrated.

I am curious if any posters here have tried and found his invention helpful,,the one that sounds off the swing speed,,,not that i need to buy yet another gizmo for my kids who will touch it once and leave it on the basement floor!!!

I have tried it. Found it to be of no practical use. If you have a tendency to get quick or rush your downswing perhaps it could help, but i found it difficult to translate the wave of sound into anything useful in a practice session... maybe if i had better pitch .

 

[Michael Finney]

Are you saying that the 3D models say something different with regard to the hands slowing down towards impact?

also, how do you feel about the "handpath" shown around 48:30?

the 3D captures are measuring quite different hand/grip accelerations near and at impact - at least in nesbits view

the grip velocity and the grip accelerations are staying very consistent at this point in the swing - very different from grober's graph

is this a 2D versus 3D debate - i don't know - i'll ask on December 5

 

[BertramSterling]

From a practical point of view, is the idea of applying all (or most) of the force early and then releasing the club head (freewheeling through impact) realistic, or misguided?

Is the hand/grip acceleration you talk about in an upward & inward direction near impact, therefore from the point of view of pushing/pulling the shaft this video is correct in transferring that energy into the club early in the downswing?

Just some thoughts regarding this video vs 3D findings..

Edit: Good post btw, enjoyed watching this

 

[BertramSterling]

Perhaps the natural instinct to release--not necessarily the most optimal release that comes with understanding and training--is indeed present in some folks, as demonstrated.

I am curious if any posters here have tried and found his invention helpful,,the one that sounds off the swing speed,,,not that i need to buy yet another gizmo for my kids who will touch it once and leave it on the basement floor!!!

You may have heard of a drill where you flip the club upside down and swing the grip end. This can create more of a 'whoosh' noise, somewhat similar to this. A cheap and cheerful way to examine these ideas maybe?

 

[birly-shirly]

the 3D captures are measuring quite different hand/grip accelerations near and at impact - at least in nesbits view

the grip velocity and the grip accelerations are staying very consistent at this point in the swing - very different from grober's graph

is this a 2D versus 3D debate - i don't know - i'll ask on December 5

I'm curious to hear more. I haven't watched the whole video yet - but there seems to be mix of conclusions drawn from a model, and also some empirical measurements. I'd quite like to understand whether, and on what basis, the reliability of the empirical measurements of real swings is being challenged.