Role of the body -Newtons 3rd law

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bcoak

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For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

We are trying to move the club out at the start of the down swing. Given Newton, is the body having an equal and opposite reaction meaning it is going towards the target?

Also, if we are moving the club away is the body something we should use to push off of? Not sure I explained that clearly (Obviously mandrin and I have been seen in the same room together. :))
 
I mentioned a few weeks ago that I found if the clubhead has any resistance put on it at the top, the body tends to counter that resistance by pushing off the inside of the right foot and moving the head slightly forward.

It's something I've observed in many top golf swings (and something I fought against...for some reason) but it makes complete sense. I thought I was "getting ahead of it" but what I was actually doing is "re-centering" and lowering myself to brace for impact. It's counter-intuitive, but the movement of the body toward the target at the start of the downswing is either the action...or the reaction to the club's outward movement.
 
S

SteveT

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For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Here's what Isaac N wrote in the original Latin for his Third Law:

“ Lex III: Actioni contrariam semper et æqualem esse reactionem: sive corporum duorum actiones in se mutuo semper esse æquales et in partes contrarias dirigi. ”

“ Law 3: To every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction: or the forces of two bodies on each other are always equal and are directed in opposite directions. ”
The operative words are "..the forces of two bodies"... which means you must seek out the other body that acts on the human body when it is swinging an integral golf club. It's not the club versus the human body.

"We are trying to move the club out at the start of the down swing. Given Newton, is the body having an equal and opposite reaction meaning it is going towards the target?"

Yes but the golf club is integral with the body... like an extension of the body. Hmmmm... where can that "other" Newtonian body be?!

"Also, if we are moving the club away is the body something we should use to push off of? Not sure I explained that clearly (Obviously mandrin and I have been seen in the same room together. :))"

I think you've hit on it with "something we should use to push off of"... the "other" body that opposes the forces generated by the human body plus the integral golf club...!!!!

It's gotta be .... THE PLANET EARTH...!!!!!

I think it's called "Ground Reaction Forces" (GRF's).... and it's something that Arturo is pondering.... so send him a PM to read your questions because it falls into his realm of investigation. Also I think it's got something to do with "dynamic balance/stability"... which Arturo is also advocating.

Good questions for Arturo .... call him over....:cool:
 
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art

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Here's what Isaac N wrote in the original Latin for his Third Law:


The operative words are "..the forces of two bodies"... which means you must seek out the other body that acts on the human body when it is swinging an integral golf club. It's not the club versus the human body.



Yes but the golf club is integral with the body... like an extension of the body. Hmmmm... where can that "other" Newtonian body be?!



I think you've hit on it with "something we should use to push off of"... the "other" body that opposes the forces generated by the human body plus the integral golf club...!!!!

It's gotta be .... THE PLANET EARTH...!!!!!

I think it's called "Ground Reaction Forces" (GRF's).... and it's something that Arturo is pondering.... so send him a PM to read your questions because it falls into his realm of investigation. Also I think it's got something to do with "dynamic balance/stability"... which Arturo is also advocating.

Good questions for Arturo .... call him over....:cool:

Dear SteveT,

Thanks for the 'referral', I appreciate participating in this area because as you noted, it involves movement, forces, dynamic/stability, and MOST importantly, a way to affect a swing with potentially increased club head velocity.

Unfortunately, during the incredibly long 'Release' blog, Newton was often quoted, along with suggestions to push the club away from the body and the target, which IMO brought unnecessary confusion to golfers seeking improvement.

Fortunately, as Brian notes above, the confusion has been resolved and has resulted in the very simple AND SCIENTIFICALLY SUPPORTED advice to just "put force ALONG the hand path", and this to me means START this 'activity' (side stepping force, action-reaction etc. for a while) at the very beginning of the downswing, and continue changing the direction of this 'activity' TANGENTIAL to the path of your hands during the down swing in accord with the "Release" blog. This hand path, and the addition of the tangential force will, as SteveT suggests, improve the lower body dynamic balance, and will show up as changing the pattern of the Ground Reaction Forces; all for the better.

In partial answer to the other questions, YES, here there IS a force, and thanks to Newton, a reaction to this force, because YOU are accelerating the golf club, (or think of it as relocating the golf club continuously). In this case, your body is is the source of this force on the golf club. Also, and in the scientific findings of Dr. Steve Nesbitt, you 'did work' to move the club, which took 'energy' which was provided from an 'conversion (not conservation)' process within the body, where muscles contracted after being 'fed' the appropriate fuel.

BUT WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD ANY GOLFER, OR EVEN INSTRUCTOR WANT TO BOTHER WITH ALL OF THIS DETAIL ???? Please, just let Newton be Newton, laws and all.

In summary, what is important here is simply that we keep the 'lower body' in dynamic balance, and accelerate the golf club from the top of the back swing by "putting a force along the hand path". However, recent research suggests and cautions that the path of the hands, may reduce the dynamic stability of the 'upper body'. (An over the top move is an example of upper body instability). So, total stability as it affects maximum/optimum personal performance necessitates attention also be paid to the relationships of the 'approximate' downswing planes of the shoulders, hands and of course, the club head.
 
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