rt. shoulder vs. pivot for swingers

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pieman

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i read about both being important for swingers. brian says to wallop the ball with the pivot. but i also read so much about getting the right shoulder going downplane and acting as a flywheel and the axis tilt. so much to try to remember. does one follow the other and will happen automatically, or is there something more specific i should try to follow?
thanks for some clairification.
 
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rosser

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Pivot

pieman said:
i read about both being important for swingers. brian says to wallop the ball with the pivot. but i also read so much about getting the right shoulder going downplane and acting as a flywheel and the axis tilt. so much to try to remember. does one follow the other and will happen automatically, or is there something more specific i should try to follow?
thanks for some clairification.
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Hey, Brian can comment on this all day. The bottom line, you don't have the "perfect pivot". Who cares about the right shoulder, its not going to get you there. The Pivot done correctly, takes care of the right shoulder down and the proper tilt. I find most just don't care to practice long enough.

How many have really, I mean really practiced the perfect pivot and are worried about the right shoulder down?

Simple as this, if you watch a MLB pitcher you can get the right idea, watch a MLB batter you can get the wrong idea.

For the most part many still don't have the correct grip, setup and aim correctly, how can one expect the body to perform, non major surgery of the golf swing. ')
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
It IS the pivot.

Let me tell you,

there are LOTS of golfers who NEED TO THINK left shoulder and not right.

But, to answer the question:

LEARN to pivot correctly—an UNWIND on a TILTED AXIS!
 
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Bigwill

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Brian Manzella said:
Let me tell you,

there are LOTS of golfers who NEED TO THINK left shoulder and not right.
Click to expand...

Brian, can you give the specifics on this? What should the left shoulder be doing, and why? Thanks.
 
Burner

Burner

New
rosser said:
Hey, Brian can comment on this all day. The bottom line, you don't have the "perfect pivot". Who cares about the right shoulder, its not going to get you there. The Pivot done correctly, takes care of the right shoulder down and the proper tilt. I find most just don't care to practice long enough.

How many have really, I mean really practiced the perfect pivot and are worried about the right shoulder down?

Simple as this, if you watch a MLB pitcher you can get the right idea, watch a MLB batter you can get the wrong idea.

For the most part many still don't have the correct grip, setup and aim correctly, how can one expect the body to perform, non major surgery of the golf swing. ')
Click to expand...
Rosser,

The hips and the shoulders in a golf swing move on ENTIRELY different planes. The hips, being on a more horizontal plane, CANNOT influence the right shoulder in the manner you would have us believe - nor can they "take care of the right shoulder down and the proper tilt".

The right shoulder must be driven down plane and NO AMOUNT of (horizontal) hip pivot can cause this motion. However, a little hip bump to the left can be, and is, a very effective pre-cursor to driving the right shoulder down plane.

Citing Baseball Pitchers and Batters is NOT comparing Oranges with Oranges as they both operate on a basically horizontal plane as opposed to the diversety of planes employed in a golf swing.
 
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rosser

New
Pivot Pivot Pivot

Burner said:
Rosser,

The hips and the shoulders in a golf swing move on ENTIRELY different planes. The hips, being on a more horizontal plane, CANNOT influence the right shoulder in the manner you would have us believe - nor can they "take care of the right shoulder down and the proper tilt".

The right shoulder must be driven down plane and NO AMOUNT of (horizontal) hip pivot can cause this motion. However, a little hip bump to the left can be, and is, a very effective pre-cursor to driving the right shoulder down plane.

Citing Baseball Pitchers and Batters is NOT comparing Oranges with Oranges as they both operate on a basically horizontal plane as opposed to the diversety of planes employed in a golf swing.
Click to expand...

Burner Burner Burner, Must you be showed this or can you take the time to learn the perfect pivot. The right shoulder will indeed go down. What pivot have you been learning that does not?

As for MLB, you must not be looking the same as I do. My eyes see many things that a non trained eye does not.

Pivot correctly and most all your worries will be left with the putter in your hand. :)
 
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joeparr

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You know I dont know who is right and who is wrong here. Are both you guys teachers ????? If so how is anyone to learn here??...joe
 
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Bigwill

New
glcoach said:
The left shoulder should be going up and back.....IOW you should be throwing the drunk guy off your left shoulder.
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Does this adversely affect the ability to hit down on the ball? In other words, can this thought lead to hitting up on the ball? If improperly applied, of course.
 
J

Jared Willerson

Super Moderator
Bigwill said:
Does this adversely affect the ability to hit down on the ball? In other words, can this thought lead to hitting up on the ball? If improperly applied, of course.
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The low point is always going to be the left shoulder so it does not affect hitting down on the ball....for your left shoulder to go up, your right shoulder must go down.
 
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rosser

New
Mirror Mirror on the Wall

mrodock said:
Burner's post looked great to me. Enlighten us Rosser (that is meant as an invitation, not a dig!)
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You want answers, do the search. Look up Brian's great threads on Perfect Pivot backswing part 1, and perfect pivot downswing part 2. Practice, don't just read it. Check in a mirror, the answers will be found. Watch the British Open today, take a closer peek.
 
Millrat

Millrat

New
This is the area where I get frustrated by terms and mental imagery i.e. "throw the drunk" (just an example BTW that is horrid for ME). These types of concepts IMO are designed for specific people with swing faults they can't cure any other way.

The amount that the left shoulder/right shoulder move up/down is relative to the axis of rotation i.e. it can be a little or a lot.

There could be standard definitions of required motions i.e. "straight plane line" and then concepts to help people understand the motions and these two should not be confused. Shoulder up/down is killer for someone with a good pivot already.

CW
 
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