Setting up plane stick

[wanole]

If we put a plane stick in the ground like VJ, would we want it to match our shoulder plane instead of the normal shaft plane? I think using this shaft would help me more on the takeaway rather then the downswing, but I just want to make sure I use it right.

This probably brings the whole one-plane vs. two plane argument up again. I just don't see how one can swing on one
plane if they use the shaft plane as it seems TGM teaches. you would have to have an address like natural golf wouldn't you?

 

[mgjordan]

Either way. You want to set it up on any plane you want to swing on. If you swing on the turned shouler, set it up there. If you swing on the elbow, set it up there.

 

[Martee]

Setting the Right Forearm on the clubshaft plane at IMPACT FIX and then using the Turned Shoulder Plane can be done without shift, without setting up as a 'natural golfer'.

If you look at the golfer at Impact, notice the position of the left arm and right arm, including the right elbow. That might give you some ideas. Also the location at the TOP for the Shoulder Turn Plane can be misuderstood. Determine it by a Flat Shoulder Turn in the Backstroke.

Some thoughts.

 

[mgjordan]

Wanole,
It's really more the sweetspot that you want to swing on plane. She shaft will have to shift from it's starting plane to the turned shoulder, but the sweetspot can swing straight up the turned shouler. I don't see how you would set up with the shaft on the turned shoulder without being uncomfortable and looking goofy.

 

[wanole]

quote:Originally posted by mgjordan

Wanole,
It's really more the sweetspot that you want to swing on plane. She shaft will have to shift from it's starting plane to the turned shoulder, but the sweetspot can swing straight up the turned shouler. I don't see how you would set up with the shaft on the turned shoulder without being uncomfortable and looking goofy.

In looking at David Toms swing on Brians toms vs vj post isn't David swinging on the turned shoulder plane?
Sorry if I sound confused.

 

[mgjordan]

Yes, his backswing is right up the turned shoulder plane. He then shift slightly above it and then on the downswing he shifts slightly below it.

 

[Martee]

quote:Originally posted by wanole

quote:Originally posted by mgjordan

Wanole,
It's really more the sweetspot that you want to swing on plane. She shaft will have to shift from it's starting plane to the turned shoulder, but the sweetspot can swing straight up the turned shouler. I don't see how you would set up with the shaft on the turned shoulder without being uncomfortable and looking goofy.

In looking at David Toms swing on Brians toms vs vj post isn't David swinging on the turned shoulder plane?
Sorry if I sound confused.

VJ is definite elbow plane, double shift.

Toms' starts out on shaft plane and shifts to Shoulder Turn Plane and then comes down it, a single shift. Remember Brian said that Toms did get a bit under it.

Homer said that "The clubshaft must start itsjourney on the Plane of its Address angle of inclination. It may or may not move to other Planes as it travels."

 

[wanole]

quote:Originally posted by Martee

quote:Originally posted by wanole

quote:Originally posted by mgjordan

Wanole,
It's really more the sweetspot that you want to swing on plane. She shaft will have to shift from it's starting plane to the turned shoulder, but the sweetspot can swing straight up the turned shouler. I don't see how you would set up with the shaft on the turned shoulder without being uncomfortable and looking goofy.

In looking at David Toms swing on Brians toms vs vj post isn't David swinging on the turned shoulder plane?
Sorry if I sound confused.

VJ is definite elbow plane, double shift.

Toms' starts out on shaft plane and shifts to Shoulder Turn Plane and then comes down it, a single shift. Remember Brian said that Toms did get a bit under it.

Homer said that "The clubshaft must start itsjourney on the Plane of its Address angle of inclination. It may or may not move to other Planes as it travels."

Ok...that makes sense.

 

[Vaako]

quote:Originally posted by Martee
...

Toms' starts out on shaft plane and shifts to Shoulder Turn Plane and then comes down it, a single shift. Remember Brian said that Toms did get a bit under it.

...

I don't think Toms move would be a plane shift in TGM sense?


Vaako

 

[Martee]

quote:Originally posted by Vaako

quote:Originally posted by Martee
...

Toms' starts out on shaft plane and shifts to Shoulder Turn Plane and then comes down it, a single shift. Remember Brian said that Toms did get a bit under it.

...

I don't think Toms move would be a plane shift in TGM sense?


Vaako

Single Shift (TGM Def) - This shift relates onlhy to the shift from the elbow plane Angle to the Turned Shoulder Angle during the Backstroke, with a Downstroke on the Turned Shoulder Plane.

 

[nevermind]

so the zero shift is done on the turned shoulder plane, with a flat shoulder turn the 'best' option?

the sweetspot works up the turned shoulder plane right from the get go and on the way down the rear shoulder, sweetspot and shaft will work back down the turned shoulder plane?

at times in the backswing the shaft not be on the T.S plane?

how can you be on plane at the start of the backswing if the sweetspot and shaft are not both working up the same plane angle? .. picturing it my head it looks like the shaft would be pointing well outside the target line if the sweetspot starts up/back on the T.S plane and you havent set up the shaft/forearm on that plane(possible without a straight rear arm?)

thanks for reading this far

 

[Martee]

quote:Originally posted by nevermind

so the zero shift is done on the turned shoulder plane, with a flat shoulder turn the 'best' option?

The Backstroke uses the Flat Shoulder Turn, the Downstroke uses Downstroke Shoulder Turn. Two different motions

quote:
the sweetspot works up the turned shoulder plane right from the get go and on the way down the rear shoulder, sweetspot and shaft will work back down the turned shoulder plane?

If you were to draw line on photo or video to represent the Shoulder Turn Plane Line/Angle it would not be from the ball back up to the Top. It would be the Inclined Plane using the clubshaft, right forearm to a spot that has been determined based on the Flat Shoulder Turn of where the Right Shoulder is. Note that when Brian did the analysis of David Toms, he said he used the 3rd or 4th frame to identify the Turned Shoulder Plane spot at the top.

The sweetspot and the shaft will only reside on the Inclined Plane when the clubhead has been turned or rotated. This is done during the Backstroke with a turning motion and during the Downstroke a roll (swivel for swingers) will take place and at that point the sweepspot and shaft will no longer be on the Inclined Plane.

quote:
at times in the backswing the shaft not be on the T.S plane?

If the Inclined Plane is drawned as Homer did, the shaft should be on the Inclined Plane. That is not to say a shift couldn't occur, but then it wouldn't be a zero shift.

quote:
how can you be on plane at the start of the backswing if the sweetspot and shaft are not both working up the same plane angle? .. picturing it my head it looks like the shaft would be pointing well outside the target line if the sweetspot starts up/back on the T.S plane and you havent set up the shaft/forearm on that plane(possible without a straight rear arm?)

Homer described 'being on plane' in reference to the base line of the inclined plane. His diagrams in chapter 2 clearly show the Inclined Plane, Shaft Plane and Sweet Spot Plane. Only the Inclined Plane and Shaft Plane are parallel to each other.

Yes without having a stiff left arm you can have the clubshaft and right forearm (not arm) be on the Inclined Plane using the Shoulder Turn Plane Angle for the Inclined Plane. And you maintain your flying wedges...

 

[nevermind]

thanks Martee.

 

[Vaako]

quote:Originally posted by Martee

quote:Originally posted by Vaako

quote:Originally posted by Martee
...

Toms' starts out on shaft plane and shifts to Shoulder Turn Plane and then comes down it, a single shift. Remember Brian said that Toms did get a bit under it.

...

I don't think Toms move would be a plane shift in TGM sense?


Vaako

Single Shift (TGM Def) - This shift relates onlhy to the shift from the elbow plane Angle to the Turned Shoulder Angle during the Backstroke, with a Downstroke on the Turned Shoulder Plane.

But he doesn't use elbow plane - he may address with it. If anything he's using some version of turning shoulder plane to start his swing.

He may have a plane shift later to turned shoulder plane - can't really comment on that, since I don't know how turning shoulder plane is supposed to work.

No?


Vaako

 

[Martee]

quote:Vaako wrote... But he doesn't use elbow plane - he may address with it. If anything he's using some version of turning shoulder plane to start his swing.

He may have a plane shift later to turned shoulder plane - can't really comment on that, since I don't know how turning shoulder plane is supposed to work.

No?

Homer said that "The clubshaft must start its journey on the Plane of its Address angle of inclination. It may or may not move to other Planes as it travels."

I am editing my response.. I was going to suggest that maybe it is closer to a Hands Plane but that is not going to fly.

We know that it doesn't start out on the Turned Shoulder Plane. We know that at the Top and Down, it appears to be the Turned Shoulder Plane. So he is shifting from ???Clubshaft Plane at Address??? to the Shoulder Turned Plane. A single shift from something other than the Turned Shoulder Plane to a Turned Shoulder Plane. A look at frame 5 might suggest that at Impact he is trying to get on an Elbow plane even though we are thinking he has the Turned Shoulder Plane. Maybe as Brian said that frame 5 shows a problem, it is he is confusing the Plane Angle (somehow ends up with a pseudo elbow plane when he really wants a Turned Shoulder Plane). Maybe a carry over from pre-Brian days with him?

I have rambled enough. I will leave it with, he is single shifting to the Turned Shoulder Plane from a plane angle that is between the elbow and shoulder that appears to match the clubshaft address angle.