Shaft lean

[curtisj76]

Can someone remind me why Brian doesn't like a lot of shaft lean now? I watched the tournament today and Zach mentioned how getting more shaft lean was important. I also saw a clip form JB Holmes today where he mentioned he likes a lot of shaft lean. Why are we getting away from that? D-plane? If so, WHY?? Thanks

Curtis

 

[Tball88]

I don't think Brian is against shaft lean. You just have to make some compensations for the fact that the additional shaft lean will shut the face some, making the ball go left.

So with the clubs you hit more "down" with, ie wedges, short irons, you need to swing a bit more left, by swinging more left, the path will assist in offsetting the forward lean of the shaft to create a better ball flight.

As the clubs get longer, ie driver etc. You have less shaft lean, so you don't need to swing as left.

That's my novice understanding.

 

[GPM1985]

I actually think that more shaft lean will cause the ball to start further right. One of the interesting things Trackman has revealed is that the more you hit down on the ball, the further left you have to aim. Conversely, if you're hitting up on a driver, you have to aim right. I think it's been said that a 3-wood is the only club that can be aimed straight at the intended target.

Did Zach Johnson mention why exactly shaft lean is important? It's my understanding that you can have too little and need more, or you can have too much and need less, or you can have just the right amount. You're not going to have the same amount of shaft lean for every shot, even if you're hitting two different shots with the same club. A knockdown 6-iron into a 20 mph wind wll probably have more shaft lean than the moonball 6-iron you're trying to launch downwind to a protected pin.

I think it's just whatever you need for the shot you're trying to hit, or whatever you need for your swing in general.

 

[ggsjpc]

If my memory serves, he was talking about less shaft lean being a positive for lindsey gahm because it allows the player to aim as close to parallel left as possible. It gives the player the best chance of getting lined up correctly.

 

[mb6606]

I do not understand how shaft lean causes a ball to go left or right? Doesn't club face dictate 80% of direction?? When I chip I lead the shaft way forward - the ball goes at the target if my clubface is aligned properly at impact.

 

[curtisj76]

Did Zach Johnson mention why exactly shaft lean is important?

I can't remember exactly but it was something like "better contact".

Here's a link from golfdigest where Zach talks about compression:

Breaking 80: Mike Bender: Golf Digest Magazine

I still don't understand why we are looking to get away from this?

 

[niblick1]

Curtis, there's a school of thought still out there that you will compress the ball more with more downward strike through more shaft lean (the comment in the article you linked to says this) and that you should be working to add more lean all the time. Here's a comment from Brian on this idea:

"3. Lots of folks thought, and some still think, that if you really "bang down on the ball" you will compress it more. This makes the ball go much farther.

What happens in this scenario is simply the golfer de-lofts the face, turning say, a 7-iron into a 5 or even a 4, by hitting down with a forward leaning shaft and delivering up to 10 degrees of downward and de-loft. Turns out that, given the same club head speed, the ball would go the same distance if the 5-iron was just properly struck with about 3 or 4 degrees of downward and de-lofting."

So, if, as the others above have noted adding extra lean forces more swinging left to compensate, and if, as brian says above, doing this doesn't make you hit the ball further, then why strive to have extra lean if it just forces more compensations and doesn't increase distance?

 

[Richie3Jack]

I think I remember Kevin Shields talking about having a student who had just about as much leaning shaft at impact as he had ever seen and they eventually wound up just getting him to aim and hit left. So, I think Brian and company would prefer a student to have little forward leaning of the shaft, but only if they can execute it on a consistent basis. Otherwise, they'll just teach the student to aim and swing left so they can hit it straight.



3JACK

 

[Ryan Smither]

A few things to consider ...
*Forward lean does not guarantee downward strike ... i.e. just because you add forward lean does not mean you hit down on the ball any further
*Zach Johnson is not exactly in the "center" of the matrix

 

[curtisj76]

Thanks for the responses everyone. The reason I brought this up is because it's hard to argue with the guy that shot the last 2 60's on tour and is sitting at the top of the FedEx points. I just couldn't remember, thanks again.

 

[needham]

you HAVE TO HAVE a forward leaning shaft at impact.......how much?.........the design of the club tells you.......ex.......take the club and when the face is TRULY square and the leading edge is fully soled on the ground , see how much shaft lean you have..............................also you can't have a FLW without a forward leaning shaft.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Geez....

I do not understand how shaft lean causes a ball to go left or right? Doesn't club face dictate 80% of direction?? When I chip I lead the shaft way forward - the ball goes at the target if my clubface is aligned properly at impact.

"When I chip I lead the shaft way forward - the ball goes at the target if my clubface is aligned properly at impact."

Are you kidding me? When you CHIP???

The ball will ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY, go more to the right when you hit more down on it, because—for the 100th time—it makes the clubhead go more out to right field as it is going down plane.

You CAN hit UP ON THE BALL with forward lean, believe it or not, and I have posted diagrams—done to the 1000th of an inch—to show just that.

That occurrence is more likely done on Drives, when the ball is teed up, and on putts and chips, where low point can easily be manipulated with "elbow bend."