Shaft "line" steep and shallow

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slicer2scratch

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Forgive me if this has been answered. I wanted to know the thoughts about lets just say a 'line drawn" on the shaft at address. I think if we see video MOST better players get close to that line and parrallel it early in the ds and then stay on or just above it late. Most Higher handicaps it seems start well outside and vertical that line early then either stay outside it and cut across the ball or drop underneath it late.What would be the result on trackman if shaft was vertical early downswing and dropped under late AND what would be the fix?
 
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ej20

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slicer2scratch said:
Forgive me if this has been answered. I wanted to know the thoughts about lets just say a 'line drawn" on the shaft at address. I think if we see video MOST better players get close to that line and parrallel it early in the ds and then stay on or just above it late. Most Higher handicaps it seems start well outside and vertical that line early then either stay outside it and cut across the ball or drop underneath it late.What would be the result on trackman if shaft was vertical early downswing and dropped under late AND what would be the fix?
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Don't have a trackman but an overly steep transition will need a reverse tumble to get back on plane.Too much reverse tumble and you will be underplane and a path that is too much out to the right.

The fix in my opinion is to fix the overly steep transition.You don't have to look like Hogan but you don't want to be too steep coming down early.

Ryo Ishikawa has a slightly steep transition but it's all good.I do see his path has a tendency to wander a bit out right though.

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Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
You can have a reverse tumble and be fine ( Tim Clark, Carl Pettersen, Daly, Couples). It just makes the handpath thru impact that much more important. The earlier you have it backing up to slightly under the better....gives you more time to recover through the ball.
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
slicer2scratch said:
Forgive me if this has been answered. I wanted to know the thoughts about lets just say a 'line drawn" on the shaft at address. I think if we see video MOST better players get close to that line and parrallel it early in the ds and then stay on or just above it late. Most Higher handicaps it seems start well outside and vertical that line early then either stay outside it and cut across the ball or drop underneath it late.What would be the result on trackman if shaft was vertical early downswing and dropped under late AND what would be the fix?
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Just a question...

Why would ANYONE draw a line on the shaft at address??
 
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slicer2scratch

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Brian Manzella said:
Just a question...

Why would ANYONE draw a line on the shaft at address??
Click to expand...


I think it is used as a reference not necessarily as something that has to be accomplished. It is the only way I have ever been taught to work on my golf swing or look at the golf swing.With Hogan plane line as well as some others as observation.(I'm am not saying this is correct)Which is why I am on this forum trying to understand how to apply your information with what I have always looked at.
 
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jonnygrouville

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Brian Manzella said:
Just a question...

Why would ANYONE draw a line on the shaft at address??
Click to expand...

Is this a precursor to the question 'Why would anyone draw ANY line?'... :p

Back to your question, I'm not afraid to admit that I have drawn this line on my screen when analysing my own swing. At impact, I used to get the club much closer to this line (or along a plane closer to this inclination). Personally, seeing the club steeper suggests to me that I am getting underplane and act as corroborative evidence with the shots I am seeing (high rights and low lefts). Then I load up Never Hook Again, add more carry, swing left of the wall and the club looks flatter through the ball.

Were I tracing a straighter plane line through the ball and hitting better shots, I wouldn't worry about the handle being higher at impact. I'd love it! Are there better ways to be analysing this? Maybe. Comparison to the shaft position at address is only one indicator I would use.

So. Without 3D or Trackman, what should we be looking at? Are there a top five key lines, circles or anything for two-dimensional cavemen such as myself to look for? (I know now that getting back to the shaft plane from address will not be one of them...;))
 
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wulsy

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Brian Manzella said:
Just a question...

Why would ANYONE draw a line on the shaft at address??
Click to expand...

Are you saying that you can come in on any plane/path regardless of how you start as long as your D-plane matches up to the shot you want to hit? What would the implications be for a well publicised theory based around the shaft staying on the same angle throughout the swing?
 
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jonnygrouville

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Okay...

This suggests that the golfer with low hands at address will shift onto a higher plane, so where their hands start is irrelevant. Making the shift consistently is the important part. Close?

This also suggests that it would be some use for a golfer with higher hands at address, and that they might be better off with less shift.

I have a feeling I should be talking about rates of closure and what the right shoulder is up to, but I can't put my finger on it. Help.
 
Todd Dugan

Todd Dugan

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The "standard" lines that pretty much all instructors use includes one on the shaft at address. But its pretty much useless. I draw one on the shaft at impact. With the camera properly positioned, this line represents a sqaure plane line. Pretty easy to see the horizontal direction of the impact plane against this line.
 
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GolfHappy

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Brian Manzella said:
Just a question...

Why would ANYONE draw a line on the shaft at address??
Click to expand...



...perhaps it saves time putting a whole load of sticks in the ground?

stix.gif


:confused::confused::confused:
 
D

DOCW3

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Dr Zick made an observation at the symposium that I took as justification of a line above the shaft plane although it appeared not to be a product of his model.
 
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slicer2scratch

New
Todd Dugan said:
The "standard" lines that pretty much all instructors use includes one on the shaft at address. But its pretty much useless. I draw one on the shaft at impact. With the camera properly positioned, this line represents a sqaure plane line. Pretty easy to see the horizontal direction of the impact plane against this line.
Click to expand...

I will also draw a line on the shaft at impact and track the path the club took to get there. With the camera positioned on the ball target line showing true path and impact as well as the initial ball flight direction.
 
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