Shoulder Turn Takeaway

[birdie_man]

Despite all the talk about the right forearm takeaway being ideal I still remain unconvinced...it feels/seems more natural to me to take it away with my turn.

I've heard it said before that a shoulder turn takeaway destroys the natural movement of your arms (or something like that...RF flying wedge??). Any truth to that (Brian)? Can you explain that statement more please (you're good at that). It is just still unclear to me why the RFP is superior.

It would seem to me that using RFP would allow you to take it more to the outside...but I can also keep the club outside by turning my shoulders more vertically...

This leads me to another question...
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[birdie_man]

...like I said, if I turn my shoulders on a more vertical plane my club seems to stay to the outside of the target line (which apparently is ideal).

BUT this does not feel entirely natural to me (and I'm not doing a reverse pivot, I've watched for that)...it doesn't feel right yet balance-wise...maybe I just need to practice with it more, I dunno.

Anyway, look at these sequences of Shigecki, Price, and Faldo...they turn their shoulders so steeply.

http://redgoat.smugmug.com/gallery/86927/1/3033911 (Shigecki)
http://redgoat.smugmug.com/gallery/79603 (Price)
http://redgoat.smugmug.com/gallery/88672 (Faldo)

Are there advantaes or disadvantages to doing this? (maybe better short irons with steeper turn, better long irons with flatter turn????)

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

the right forearm takeaway is an option, as always. Biran's takeaway is a modified version of the shoulder turn takeaway and works plenty fine for me.

The problem with very steep shoulder turns is that it puts your right shoulder so high that its extremely difficult for it to fire downplane.

 

[birdie_man]

I realize that RFP is an option...but it is definately favoured...I'm just trying to find out, more thoroughly, why.

Hmmm...what is Brian's takeaway?

 

[rwh]

birdie_man,

I agree with Jim -- the backswing shoulder turn places the right shoulder in position to drive down the downswling plane directly to the ball and moving the shoulders too steeply on the backswing can ruin that.

Look at Murayama -- his downswing shoulders are much steeper than the backswing shoulders. That is because he simply turns his right shoulder back to the downswing plane and then he drives that right shoulder down the downswing plane.

As Mr. Kelley wrote in Chapter 7-13: "When the

Shoulder moves on the same Downstroke Plane as the Hands it provides its greatest support and its best guidance to the Stroke.​

 

[wally888]

quote:Originally posted by birdie_man

Despite all the talk about the right forearm takeaway being ideal I still remain unconvinced...it feels/seems more natural to me to take it away with my turn.

I've heard it said before that a shoulder turn takeaway destroys the natural movement of your arms (or something like that...RF flying wedge??). Any truth to that (Brian)? Can you explain that statement more please (you're good at that). It is just still unclear to me why the RFP is superior.

It would seem to me that using RFP would allow you to take it more to the outside...but I can also keep the club outside by turning my shoulders more vertically...

This leads me to another question...
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I think some of the following is credited to Brian or at least I think that is where I got the following idea?
The shoulders can turn independent of each other. Using the left shoulder to takeaway (pivot controlled hands)may or may not give you the correct right shoulder turn! I can turn my left shoulder w/o turning my right shoulder very much. Will someone take it from here?

 

[Brian Manzella]

The LONG TERM trick is to have your hands TAKE your shoulder to the SPOT you have found works best for you.

Then you never think of your shoulders...only your hands.

 

[birdie_man]

I was working on taking it back with my hands today...feels good...seems to be same plane, maybe slightly more outside with less tendency to fall to the inside on a lazy takeaway.

I have been experimenting with an angled hinge for short irons (I mostly use HH on driver-7 iron), where I have to take it more outside. I have been trying hitting with this AH as well. I need to use my hands in this takeaway to do it consistently so I might as well get used to using them for every swing I do, no matter the club, right?

 

[Brian Manzella]

Right !