Shoulderstroke in Putting

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Fingersen

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Gotta a few questions for the putting gurus in here:

How do you determine you got a shoulder-stroke in putting? Any way to quickly determine this?

Also, how do you measure you got correct face angle at impact without using a computer, camera or puttinglab instrument?

Any drills to improve this two things would be wonderful also.

Thanks
 
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puttmad

New
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Fingersen said:
Also, how do you measure you got correct face angle at impact without using a computer, camera or puttinglab instrument?
Click to expand...

Buy a cheap laser...
Find a straight putt on a piece of carpet at home and putt down the laser line...
If the putt goes down the line the face was correct...
 
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davidmac00

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Fingersen said:
Gotta a few questions for the putting gurus in here:

How do you determine you got a shoulder-stroke in putting? Any way to quickly determine this?

Also, how do you measure you got correct face angle at impact without using a computer, camera or puttinglab instrument?

Any drills to improve this two things would be wonderful also.

Thanks
Click to expand...

is having a shoulder stroke important if the ball starts online?personally i think it is as it helps distance control.so how to know if you have,my favourite is to have a sponge football(sorry guys,soccer!)placed between elbows while putting.you will notice very quickly if everything moves as a unit(shoulder stroke)or individually.
watch out thought with set up position,some peoples elbows dont allow for this,check out dimarcos shoulder stroke!
Ask damon lucas about this.he knows loads on this and he is staff for this site.
david.
 
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puttmad

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Fingersen,
Try putting right handed only first.. Get the feeling of your right hand controlling the pace..
Then add the left hand and "maintain the triangle" (arms/shoulderline), whilst retaining the same one handed feeling in your right hand..This will help with your distance control...retain the natural abilities you have.
Better for the shoulders to follow the instruction of the right hand rather than vice-cersa...
 
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Damon Lucas

Super Moderator
puttmad said:
Fingersen,
Try putting right handed only first.. Get the feeling of your right hand controlling the pace..
Then add the left hand and "maintain the triangle" (arms/shoulderline), whilst retaining the same one handed feeling in your right hand..This will help with your distance control...retain the natural abilities you have.
Better for the shoulders to follow the instruction of the right hand rather than vice-cersa...
Click to expand...

Why puttmad?
Is the evidence anecdotal or is there actual science behind your theory?
Is feel related to proprioceptive activity or is it sound based or might timing have something to do with it?
 
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Damon Lucas

Super Moderator
Fingerson,

Whether you're a shoulder putter or not, your goals should be distance control, putting where you're aimed, aiming, and based on the feedback you get from the above, reading putts and greens.

A simple test for putting straight would be to get a line on your ball and seeing whether you can roll the ball with no wobble from different distances and lines, with or without a target.

But get the speed right, first!
 
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puttmad

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Damon Lucas said:
Why puttmad?
Is the evidence anecdotal or is there actual science behind your theory?
Is feel related to proprioceptive activity or is it sound based or might timing have something to do with it?
Click to expand...

Damon,
I have a lot of in play proof to back this up, not just by myself, but many others, which I can't discus here or I'll be accused of self promotion as has happened before.
PM me your email and I'll expand on it in detail...
 
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Spike

New
Good putting is in the hands whether your shoulders move or not. It is very difficult to feel distance control with your shoulders.

" 'Feel' is the body's equivalent to structuring and its foundation is Educated Hands."
 
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davidmac00

New
Spike said:
Good putting is in the hands whether your shoulders move or not. It is very difficult to feel distance control with your shoulders.

" 'Feel' is the body's equivalent to structuring and its foundation is Educated Hands."
Click to expand...

distance control is instinct and tempo.the distance you turn your head to look at the target is registered in the cerebellum(lower back part of the brain) which tells your body the length of stroke required to get the ball there.this can only be consistent with good tempo.a shoulder stroke can definately help with tempo.
ever tried to putt with eyes closed?hows the distance control with your right hand then?its amazing to learn to use you body properly,youd surprise yourself how good you can get.
only what ive learned studying for years from the guys doing the science and research.damon is one of them and hes damn good.
david.
 
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Spike

New
davidmac00 said:
distance control is instinct and tempo.the distance you turn your head to look at the target is registered in the cerebellum(lower back part of the brain) which tells your body the length of stroke required to get the ball there.this can only be consistent with good tempo.a shoulder stroke can definately help with tempo.
ever tried to putt with eyes closed?hows the distance control with your right hand then?its amazing to learn to use you body properly,youd surprise yourself how good you can get.
only what ive learned studying for years from the guys doing the science and research.damon is one of them and hes damn good.
david.
Click to expand...

No doubt! And I'm 99.9% sure he hasn't left out the hands. If he has then it is merely incomplete. Precision in Precision out.
 
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puttmad

New
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davidmac00 said:
ever tried to putt with eyes closed?hows the distance control with your right hand then?
Click to expand...

I know a blind lady golfer whod argue your ears off on this one David...:D

When she switched form a shoulder stroke to a hand stroke, the first couse she played was a 9-hole Executive..
She 2-putted six greens in a row, one-putted one green and three putted two greens.
On the two greens she 3-putted she said she and her coach "didn't trust the action enough" and the result was their own fault...

clubface = right palm, right palm = clubface........direct mental link, to bring anything else into that equation dulls the link...
 
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davidmac00

New
i bet youd know....

puttmad said:
I know a blind lady golfer whod argue your ears off on this one David...:D

When she switched form a shoulder stroke to a hand stroke, the first couse she played was a 9-hole Executive..
She 2-putted six greens in a row, one-putted one green and three putted two greens.
On the two greens she 3-putted she said she and her coach "didn't trust the action enough" and the result was their own fault...

clubface = right palm, right palm = clubface........direct mental link, to bring anything else into that equation dulls the link...
Click to expand...

a golfer with a missing right hand if id said the feel came from the right hand!!
look,there are many many good putters who use hands as well as many who use shoulders,but youve got to realise how the brain tells your body what to do in regard to distance control.the actual technique in putting isnt such a big deal,distance control is THE most important aspect,and i will use anything in a lesson to improve it.shoulders strokes for me DO help my pupils but learning to putt instinctively to a target based on what the brain tells the shoulders,arms or hands is everything!
i metioned closing the eyes,as then you can open them and test your results.tell my please how your blind lady can test both methods!?science is about testing your theories(ie you think such a technique works#1,but you test techniques #2 to #15000 anyway to make sure it is the best method thought of!).
clubface=right palm,right palm=clubface!why?wheres the science?do all great putters(or even a majority)have the right palm parallel to the clubface?
anyhow,i guess as you dont include any of this or any scientific data on your website you will just continue to slate whatever is said.
im not going to post futher on this as i think we have moved far enough away from the original point(sorry brian).really,the guy to ask anything about putting on this site is damon,he really CAN back it up.
cheers david.
 
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puttmad

New
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davidmac00 said:
a golfer with a missing right hand if id said the feel came from the right hand!!
look,there are many many good putters who use hands as well as many who use shoulders,but youve got to realise how the brain tells your body what to do in regard to distance control.the actual technique in putting isnt such a big deal,distance control is THE most important aspect,and i will use anything in a lesson to improve it.shoulders strokes for me DO help my pupils but learning to putt instinctively to a target based on what the brain tells the shoulders,arms or hands is everything!
i metioned closing the eyes,as then you can open them and test your results.tell my please how your blind lady can test both methods!?science is about testing your theories(ie you think such a technique works#1,but you test techniques #2 to #15000 anyway to make sure it is the best method thought of!).
clubface=right palm,right palm=clubface!why?wheres the science?do all great putters(or even a majority)have the right palm parallel to the clubface?
anyhow,i guess as you dont include any of this or any scientific data on your website you will just continue to slate whatever is said.
im not going to post futher on this as i think we have moved far enough away from the original point(sorry brian).really,the guy to ask anything about putting on this site is damon,he really CAN back it up.
cheers david.
Click to expand...


Let's leavi it to Damon then....:)
 
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Damon Lucas

Super Moderator
Nah,

I think Puttmad has worked at his own putting for several years and seemingly has had a lot of success with what he deems a low maintenance proceedure. He has also had good success with other people taking on his ideas.

That doesn't make him right....nor does it make him wrong.

He has made several posts on this forum mostly just trying to help.

He has been good enough to send me his theories on putting. I am in the process of reading it. If it is ok with him(and Brian of course), I'd like to review it and give what I think would be good information for most people, whilst maybe critiqueing the points I might deem suspect.

Meantime, we've all got the right to disagree on posts, but if someone continually posts against the grain, I'd hope that that persons considers whether his posts are as valid as he believes, or whether he 'might' be wrong, or whether anyone is even interested in what he is saying.
 
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puttmad

New
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Damon Lucas said:
Nah,

I think Puttmad has worked at his own putting for several years and seemingly has had a lot of success with what he deems a low maintenance proceedure. He has also had good success with other people taking on his ideas.

That doesn't make him right....nor does it make him wrong.

He has made several posts on this forum mostly just trying to help.

He has been good enough to send me his theories on putting. I am in the process of reading it. If it is ok with him(and Brian of course), I'd like to review it and give what I think would be good information for most people, whilst maybe critiqueing the points I might deem suspect.
Click to expand...


Damon, I have no problem with that, as long as Brian is OK with it...
I will email you later..
 
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Damon Lucas

Super Moderator
tongzilla said:
That implies you know what is "right". How do you know what you know is right?
Click to expand...

That phrase was not meant to imply that I 'know' what is right or wrong, only that puttmad is entitled to his opinion without 'it' being necessarily 'right'. But I certainly have an opinion.

You have opinions, don't you Leo?

Do you get off the fence long enough to express them occasionally, or are you just the unofficial 'checks and balances' guy?
 
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