Shut / closed at the top?

[rsully]

Have a look at the photo of Carl Wolter from this link:

http://www.swingspeed.com/golf.html


I have never seen someone as closed/shut at the top as this. Is this swing setup just for distance?

I am often alternating (experimenting) between an extremely closed/shut take away like this and a traditional look. Personally, I can hit the ball consistently like this, (at least with the irons), and I tend to get a little more distance.

However, I am wondering if I should be practicing this way if my goal is to build the best golf swing I can. Basically, I am concerned that I don't know of any accomplished players who look like this is -

Han anyone else ever tried this? Would Brian advocate this?

Advantages / disadvantages? Just plain silly?

Thanks,

Ron

 

[pecky987]

Have a look at the photo of Carl Wolter from this link:

http://www.swingspeed.com/golf.html


I have never seen someone as closed/shut at the top as this. Is this swing setup just for distance?

I am often alternating (experimenting) between an extremely closed/shut take away like this and a traditional look. Personally, I can hit the ball consistently like this, (at least with the irons), and I tend to get a little more distance.

However, I am wondering if I should be practicing this way if my goal is to build the best golf swing I can. Basically, I am concerned that I don't know of any accomplished players who look like this is -

Han anyone else ever tried this? Would Brian advocate this?

Advantages / disadvantages? Just plain silly?

Thanks,

Ron

well there are numerous players who are '45 degrees open' at the top.

david duval, zach johnson, aaron oberholser, boo weekly even jim furyk.

these players, espcially weekly and johnson tend to have a very steep angle of dissent and deloft the club alot, thats why you'll see them take particuarly deep divots and have low ball flight. this could be why you hit the irons further like this, as you must have more forward lean to keep the face square and the left wrist flat.

if you hit the ball better with this sort of position, why change?

you can hit the ball perfectly well doing this, so i wouldnt worry too much about how it looks and that it doesnt quite look like tiger or ernie lol

 

[mrodock]

well there are numerous players who are '45 degrees open' at the top.

david duval, zach johnson, aaron oberholser, boo weekly even jim furyk.

these players, espcially weekly and johnson tend to have a very steep angle of dissent and deloft the club alot, thats why you'll see them take particuarly deep divots and have low ball flight. this could be why you hit the irons further like this, as you must have more forward lean to keep the face square and the left wrist flat.

if you hit the ball better with this sort of position, why change?

you can hit the ball perfectly well doing this, so i wouldnt worry too much about how it looks and that it doesnt quite look like tiger or ernie lol

You may want to check Johnson . . . he's as sweepy as it gets.

Check the face on of him on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Soba0sGGML8

Huge difference in angle of descent between him and Boo Weekly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Soba0sGGML8

 

[pecky987]

You may want to check Johnson . . . he's as sweepy as it gets.

Check the face on of him on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Soba0sGGML8

Huge difference in angle of descent between him and Boo Weekly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Soba0sGGML8

ZJ still hits down plenty hard with deep divot and steep angle, but i think Boo has more accumulator lag/trigger delay which creates the look of a steeper angle. ZJ has more of a sweep release as opposed to a snap release

 

[pecky987]

any way, point is 'shut face' at the top IMO is fine, if you can get it to work

 

[Leek]

Just kind of looks like an NSA "twistaway" to me. Maybe he was a slicer, and found this way to allow him to get his clubface square at impact.

BTW- from my view it's not shut, just less open.

 

[rsully]

Zach Johnson & the upward looking face

OMG! I didn't realize that Zach Johnson did that. Thanks so much for the feedback -

Look at the face of his club at 0:25 in - totally skyward.

I really like his swing, so this potentially gives me someone to look at should I just make the decision to switch to the shut face all the time.

I should have mentioned that I swing the club effectively using the "shut method" aka the Zach Johnson - for the 5 iron through the wedges, but not the driver - I wonder why?

Does anyone else on the board do this?


Ron

 

[Leek]

David Duval did this when he was one of the best players on tour.

 

[mrodock]

ZJ still hits down plenty hard with deep divot and steep angle, but i think Boo has more accumulator lag/trigger delay which creates the look of a steeper angle. ZJ has more of a sweep release as opposed to a snap release

Looks like the club is an inch from the ground when his hands get to his right thigh . . .

Check his stats . . . hits it short and straight but misses a lot of greens to hit that many fairways. Not a good iron swing IMO.

 

[Kevin Shields]

I really turned the corner when Brian taught me how to fade it from this "closed" (70 degrees open) position. Lots of the best ballstrikers in history have this look. Duval, Miller, Nicklaus, Trevino, Weiskopf, Lehman. Remember, not closed, just less open.

 

[birdie_man]

Beautiful.

I look a lot like this at the top.....but with a more arched left wrist. I probably wouldn't understand it if I didn't do it myself. (and there's a lot of things I DON'T understand for this very reason)

It is weird. I have a neutral grip. (both wrists vertical at address with clubface matching back of left hand) Even if I try to keep it flat.....it ends up arched.

And to me it sure does not feel closed. The thing is- I AM swiveling it open. This is not a pure "twistaway" ("no roll" feel) move. I swivel it open and the extra arched-ness just "happens." Not in practice swings though. Just in real swings. I don't even feel it.

Up to now it is all that works for me.

It's weird. And ugly. But not to me. So long as it continues to work the way it does.....I like it even more knowing that I (mostly) understand it whereas others don't.

 

[pecky987]

OMG! I didn't realize that Zach Johnson did that. Thanks so much for the feedback -

Look at the face of his club at 0:25 in - totally skyward.

I really like his swing, so this potentially gives me someone to look at should I just make the decision to switch to the shut face all the time.

I should have mentioned that I swing the club effectively using the "shut method" aka the Zach Johnson - for the 5 iron through the wedges, but not the driver - I wonder why?

Does anyone else on the board do this?


Ron

there is a bit of a problem with 'shut-face' swinging. as aforementioned, your likely to need alot of forward lean, and you must keep your head behind the ball to keep the blade square. Brian calls it 'keeping the bow-tie back'.

 

[tongzilla]

If you want to have a classic looking golf swing, then your leading edge at the top should be parallel to your left arm with a very slightly cupped left wrist (almost Flat). This will require a grip that's very slightly stronger than neutral.

Brian likes to have the typical slicer's clubface to be "less open" at the top because they need to know what it feels like to bring a square/closed face into impact. One of the main tools he uses is the Twistaway during certain parts of the swing.

However, in my opinion, if you are willing to put in hours and effort and put up with shots going to the right for a while, you will learn how to square the face up from a 90 degree open clubface position at the top. And square it up without any bastardization (e.g. flipping or deliberate rolling/releasing of the arms). Of course, you will need to have a decent setup and decent pivot.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Yeah, but...

If you want to have a classic looking golf swing, then your leading edge at the top should be parallel to your left arm with a very slightly cupped left wrist (almost Flat). This will require a grip that's very slightly stronger than neutral.

Brian likes to have the typical slicer's clubface to be "less open" at the top because they need to know what it feels like to bring a square/closed face into impact. One of the main tools he uses is the Twistaway during certain parts of the swing.

However, in my opinion, if you are willing to put in hours and effort and put up with shots going to the right for a while, you will learn how to square the face up from a 90 degree open clubface position at the top. And square it up without any bastardization (e.g. flipping or deliberate rolling/releasing of the arms). Of course, you will need to have a decent setup and decent pivot.

After I FIX golfers with the "Twistaway," I always make them go back to orthodox.

Cuz, Cuz, they have learn something that ALL GOLFERS need.

 

[cmartingolf]

He's just another guy with a strong left hand grip that allows his left wrist to go flat at the top. Certainly not "Manzella Neutral."

Fred Couples would look the same way if he didn't cup his left wrist at the top. Lee Trevino looks just like this guy.

Need some body rotation to keep from hitting it left of left.

 

[rsully]

Looking at my swing again . . .an epiphany?

Looking In the mirror at my golf swing, a moment of discovery - an epiphany about the golf swing:

My original comment regarding the shut face was that I seemed to get a little more distance (with a lot less effort) rather than having the toe of the club pointing skyward on the take away. I can do it either way, but just seems to work with less effort and helps to control my hook a little better.

Let me try to explain

As I take the club back about 1/4 of way, the club face is still looking at the ground ala "twistaway." The face stays that way until I get near the top and than I can let my hands "release" into a somewhay more traditional look if I want to. On the down swing I quickly go back to a closed face. \

Epiphany: I never really understood what Brian ment in NSA again when he talks about lagging the sweetspot. Now I think I do. With the traditional takeaway, maybe I was lagging the hosel, as Brian talks about, because I didn't have the face towards the ball until a little later in the swing.

Ron