Side hill lies and D-plane

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bcoak

bcoak

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Are there adjustments you should/can make with the d-plane with respect to side hill lies. I struggle with ball below my feet and a block cut
 
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SteveT

Guest
Great Question..!!!!

All we see are pictures of the D-plane off a flat and level surface.... but what happens to the positional lines and vectors when the playing surface is tilted, along with the golfswing?

Obviously, you must adjust your swing and clubface for side hill lies, to get the desired ball flight?

Can you theoretically achieve a straight ball flight off a tilted surface, or are you forced to create a spin axis to meet D-plane criteria?
 
dschultz6072

dschultz6072

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Aim left?

I wasn't aware you could do much about uneven lies. All I know is wherever the ground is sloping, that's where the ball will want to go.
 
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Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
If your stance could remain the same and the lie angle of the club is still the same relative to the surface the D plane would be the same. The ball would just curve more. But we all know certain adjustments regarding the clubs lie angle as well as weight distribution make for other variables.

Bcoak, I'd bet anything you don't aim left enough.
 
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ParHunter

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dschultz6072 said:
Aim left?

I wasn't aware you could do much about uneven lies. All I know is wherever the ground is sloping, that's where the ball will want to go.
Click to expand...

I must be the odd one out. I always hit it more to the right!
When I have to 'sit' down during a swing I feel that I can't really come from the inside so my shot comes more over the top then normal but with a club face square to the path.

Regards

ParHunter
 
mjstrong

mjstrong

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Ball above your feet: take more club, grip down, and open the clubface so that it's normal vector points back at the target. Since you've basically restored your flat-lie D-Plane, just swing normally.

Ball below your feet: I rarely make any adjustments (apart from standing wider with more knee flex) since my club's effective lie angle doesn't change like it does when the ball is above my feet, although most people seem to.
 
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bcoak

bcoak

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Kevin Shields said:
If your stance could remain the same and the lie angle of the club is still the same relative to the surface the D plane would be the same. The ball would just curve more. But we all know certain adjustments regarding the clubs lie angle as well as weight distribution make for other variables.

Bcoak, I'd bet anything you don't aim left enough.
Click to expand...

Aim everything left or just stance?
 
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SteveT

Guest
Here is what Jorgensen says about sidehill lies in his Physics of Golf on page 89 of the new edition:

"Many golf instruction books treat the subject of sidehill lies. When
the ball lies lower than your feet, you are to play for a slice, and when
the ball lies higher than your feet, you are to play for a hook. The D
plane may be used to understand why. Consider a sidehill lie with the
ball higher than your feet. If you stand to the ball with your usual
stance, the normal to the clubface will naturally point to the left of the
target. This will tilt the D plane to the left, and the ball will have a
hooking flight. The golfer has two possible ways to correct this flight of
the ball. He may, as the books advise, play for a hook and aim to the
right of the target. The question is, How much to the right of the target
should he aim? He may toe the club out a bit so that the normal to the
clubface and the direction of the motion of the clubhead at impact
indicate a D plane that is vertical and contains the target. There will be
no hook for a vertical D plane, but the toeing out of the club will give
the club more loft. Thus for a given swing the ball will not go as far as
one might expect for a given club. Then the question is, How far will
the ball go? In either case the shot requires considerable judgment."
Click to expand...

I've tried to draft the geometry of the D-plane on a tilted surface, and haven't successfully drawn it out to satisfy myself. Gotta put more time and analysis into aligning the golfer to the ball and the position and path of the clubface at impact. Hope Jorgensen's explanation helps.
 
mjstrong

mjstrong

New
Jorgenson doesn't cover the D-Plane differences with the ball below your feet. I'm not saying that there won't be differences in a player's swing when addressing a ball below their feet (different posture, balance, etc.), so the Path of the club may be altered. However, I don't see the need to correct for any change in Face angle since I believe it stays the same as a level lie (which is not the case when above your feet).
 
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SteveT

Guest
Perhaps Tuxen at Trackman could clarify how the D-plane operates on sidehill lies, since TM is based on the D-plane.
 
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