Love this site and have learned alot. This is my first post. My "natural" swing is a rock solid, consistant, heavy duty slice. I've been studying NSA 2.0. My pre NSA correction was a very strong grip with hands forward, resulting in a very delofted clubface w/ lots of driver misses low and to the right (I'm left handed). Incorporating more axis tilt and arm swinging with a bit of retained twist-away during the downswing and thru impact has really helped get my ball flight higher and straighter. That's the good news. But I can't seem to make a neutral grip work at all. I lose the grip going back or during transition. It feels totally unstable and I've varied grip pressure but can't seem to make it work. I know Brian recommends a neutral grip, but with the changes I mentioned above, I'm beginning to see some consistancy (straight flight ~240 yd carry) and my frazzled self wants to leave well enough alone for now. Has anyone been thru this (personally or with students)?
Slicer with a strong grip question
- Thread starter imac
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golfbulldog
New
swivel
If you take your neutral grip and get to top of backswing with twistaway held your clubface should be "closed" ( as described by pop intsruction...actuallly opened less) and it feels really strong sensation especially if held into downswing.... i suspect you are not holding the twistaway enough at transition..... if you cup your wrist at the top with a neutral grip then you get the sensation you describe.
Do it at slightly less than "mash/kill" the ball pace first and really exaggerate the feeling of twistaway so that you feel people are laughing at you because it is so twistaway - ish!
Also...
with your strong grip and a straight ball flight - you cannot be doing the finish swivel enough.... if you were you would be hooking off the planet....
Go with neutral grip and work on finish swivel...or keep strong grip and accept that you may just be uncocking into impact ...rather than uncock and roll
maybe...I am not a pro...but I bet it is your twistaway loosening at top and finish swivel that is part of the problem
If you take your neutral grip and get to top of backswing with twistaway held your clubface should be "closed" ( as described by pop intsruction...actuallly opened less) and it feels really strong sensation especially if held into downswing.... i suspect you are not holding the twistaway enough at transition..... if you cup your wrist at the top with a neutral grip then you get the sensation you describe.
Do it at slightly less than "mash/kill" the ball pace first and really exaggerate the feeling of twistaway so that you feel people are laughing at you because it is so twistaway - ish!
Also...
with your strong grip and a straight ball flight - you cannot be doing the finish swivel enough.... if you were you would be hooking off the planet....
Go with neutral grip and work on finish swivel...or keep strong grip and accept that you may just be uncocking into impact ...rather than uncock and roll
maybe...I am not a pro...but I bet it is your twistaway loosening at top and finish swivel that is part of the problem
My experience
I played for 18 years with a very strong grip, and I understand why you're tempted to hang onto it because the neutral feels so weird and so weak.
However, if you are incorporating some components within the NSA pattern - especially axis tilt and twistaway - then I would strongly encourage you to make the grip change to a neutral grip.
The problem is, if you are using the very strong grip and even a bit of twistaway, then q5 the top you have a clubface that is not all that open (relatively 'shut') and in order not to hook the ball you are currently opening the clubface on the way down. In short, this is not a very good move to be making and it's going to hinder your progress in the future.
If you want to do more than just eliminate the slice - if you want to use your pivot to mash the ball, if you want to some day learn to work it both ways, etc. - then you are going to have to learn to 'hold the twist' and 'lag the sweetspot' and you're going to need to learn how to horizontal hinge (or roll) quite a bit more than you are currently doing.
And I assure you that it doesn't take a low handicaper to use a neutral grip within the NSA pattern and hit great, straight shots. It worked for me. But it also worked when I taught it to my father. He's sliced his whole life and he hardly plays golf at all these days (he's 62). Within 20 minutes on the range I literally had him hitting the very first draws of his life. The next day we played and he hit it right once all day. He thought I had somehow become a genius instructor, but I just taught him NSA (and gave Brian due credit!)
I played for 18 years with a very strong grip, and I understand why you're tempted to hang onto it because the neutral feels so weird and so weak.
However, if you are incorporating some components within the NSA pattern - especially axis tilt and twistaway - then I would strongly encourage you to make the grip change to a neutral grip.
The problem is, if you are using the very strong grip and even a bit of twistaway, then q5 the top you have a clubface that is not all that open (relatively 'shut') and in order not to hook the ball you are currently opening the clubface on the way down. In short, this is not a very good move to be making and it's going to hinder your progress in the future.
If you want to do more than just eliminate the slice - if you want to use your pivot to mash the ball, if you want to some day learn to work it both ways, etc. - then you are going to have to learn to 'hold the twist' and 'lag the sweetspot' and you're going to need to learn how to horizontal hinge (or roll) quite a bit more than you are currently doing.
And I assure you that it doesn't take a low handicaper to use a neutral grip within the NSA pattern and hit great, straight shots. It worked for me. But it also worked when I taught it to my father. He's sliced his whole life and he hardly plays golf at all these days (he's 62). Within 20 minutes on the range I literally had him hitting the very first draws of his life. The next day we played and he hit it right once all day. He thought I had somehow become a genius instructor, but I just taught him NSA (and gave Brian due credit!)
Dariusz J.
New member
Imac, I can understand your pain with going to weaker grip. IMHO, it would be good if Brian, in free minute, could present to us some crucial indications, e.g. to which aspects one needs to put special attention when achieving the Manzella Neutral Grip...
...especially going from strong to neutral, since I presume there are very few golfers who have too weak grips.
Cheers
...especially going from strong to neutral, since I presume there are very few golfers who have too weak grips.
Cheers
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
I agree with Fronesis. "Holding the twist" and going palm down thru the ball is a seriously difficult thing for a strong slicer to master. Keep at it!
Brian Manzella
Administrator
The Manzella Neutral Grip....and downTwistaway.
Here is the straight dope.
It sounds like you don't have it right in your LEFT HAND to start with.
Also, take the RIGHT HAND grip in the backswing twistaway.
———————————————————————————————————
As for the downTwistaway...
Try these:
1. Downward Right Palm, as in dribbling a basketball.
2. FEEL LIKE the left thumb rotates toward the ball from the top.
3. MAKE SURE you rotae your LEFT ELBOW toward your left ribs.
Here is the straight dope.
It sounds like you don't have it right in your LEFT HAND to start with.
Also, take the RIGHT HAND grip in the backswing twistaway.
———————————————————————————————————
As for the downTwistaway...
Try these:
1. Downward Right Palm, as in dribbling a basketball.
2. FEEL LIKE the left thumb rotates toward the ball from the top.
3. MAKE SURE you rotae your LEFT ELBOW toward your left ribs.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Do you have NSA 2.0?
chrisfx811
New
I understand your struggle with the feeling of Brian's neutral grip, as it actually feels very weak, when you come from a stronger grip.
When I force myself to take it, and stick with it though, I hit some effortlessly far shots, and I just shake my head and think of the 1 lesson I had with Brian.
As Brian said, it is important to take your right hand grip while simulating a halfway back check point, as for me, the way Brian explained it, is it puts the right hand in the correct position relative to the left.
When I force myself to take it, and stick with it though, I hit some effortlessly far shots, and I just shake my head and think of the 1 lesson I had with Brian.
As Brian said, it is important to take your right hand grip while simulating a halfway back check point, as for me, the way Brian explained it, is it puts the right hand in the correct position relative to the left.
Thanks to all for the feedback. Brian, I'm left handed, so when you give me specific right and left hand instructions I'm assuming they are for a right hander ... correct? I definitely have the heel pad of my right (target) hand on the top of the grip. From my vantage point I'm seeing 3-4 knuckles of my right hand at address, so definitely a STRONG grip. The ulnar (little finger) side of my right hand feels like it leads thru impact, rather than the back of my hand. I practiced and played a little (5 holes) today, and decided to keep my strong grip, but continued to follow your other NSA matrix components (especially pivoting and increasing the axis tilt thru the downswing). I was making solid contact, getting nice ball flight and hitting fairways, which is a significant improvement for me. I may try to gradually "neutralize" my grip. Would a video session work here? Or, any plans to be in Oregon? Think winter golf and skiing - it's all here. imac
So I reviewed my situation and all the prior posts, and decided to buck up and give the neutral grip a real try. As noted by others who have de-stronged their grips, it felt pretty weird at first, but it became more comfortable with repetition, and I was able to make pretty good contact and even took it onto the course for 9 holes today. A mixture of hits (many pretty good). I'll stick with it. I hear the message: a neutral grip is the gateway to better golf. Thanks to all who have provided feedback. imac
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