Snap Hook

[SOS]

I have a tendency to to hit a low hook. Lately, it turned into a snap hook barely getting off the ground.

At my wits end, I noticed one of my playing partners was addressing the ball with rear foot dropped back, away from the target line, progressively more with longer club. I'd say his rear foot was 6 to 8 inches back with his driver. His backswing looked free and smooth going back. He was hitting the ball pretty well.

I decided to give it a try at the range and had good results. My address seemed to evolve for the better with each ball I hit. I setup with more spine angle a simply held the club in a relaxed easy manner. I tried to just let my arms hang and start my backswing with my shoulders. This produced a very centered turn and pivot with very little lateral movement. Also my lead arm seemed to extend as it went back and maintained a relatively straight line without much tension or stress.

Is it advisable to continue to play with this address or find the root cause and fix it. Is so, anybody like to venture a guess what my trouble might be with a when I address with a "square stance" 10-5-A?

Help,
SOS

 

[Brian Manzella]

Probably no axis tilt.

The right foot back set-up helps get the right shoulder DEEP enough to then go DOWNplane.

...hence, A X I S T I L T

 

[SOS]

quote:Originally posted by brianman

Probably no axis tilt.

The right foot back set-up helps get the right shoulder DEEP enough to then go DOWNplane.

...hence, A X I S T I L T

Thanks Brain. Just what I was looking for: A - why the compensation helped, and B - what is the real source of the problem.

Any other ideas out there? It must be related to balance and how I use my legs and hips.

When I use a square stance I feel more weight shifting into right hip than the closed stance. Then, from the top, I want to push off hard with right foot which may cause numerous problems (ie. no axis tilt and/or right elbow-hip collision).

Transistion should probably be slower so that I can simply slide hips forward. Then I can unwind hips in latter in the downswing after right elbow clears hip.

SOS

 

[DDL]

I find that slowing down the transition will get the right shoulder moving downplane, instead of over the top that I experience with a jerky transition.. Also automatically creates the needed axis tilt without thinking about it.

 

[cherrybarry]

where were your divots pointing?

 

[SOS]

quote:Originally posted by cherrybarry

where were your divots pointing?

Ya know, I really did not pay attention to the divot. Next time out I'll make sure to note and let you know. Any tips until then?

SOS

 

[Archie Swivel]

Check your left hand grip by gripping the club with your flat left hand only and holding the club out in front of you with your straight left arm and the club both parallel to the ground. Is the bottom edge of the clubface parallel you the ground and your flat left wrist? Or is it closed? What about AFTER you hit the ball- does it stay the same.

 

[SOS]

quote:Originally posted by Archie Swivel

Check your left hand grip by gripping the club with your flat left hand only and holding the club out in front of you with your straight left arm and the club both parallel to the ground. Is the bottom edge of the clubface parallel you the ground and your flat left wrist? Or is it closed? What about AFTER you hit the ball- does it stay the same.

Are you describing what is shown in Figure 3 of Brian's "Get a Grip and Save Your Swing" article?

http://homepage.mac.com/brianmanzella/.Public/bmanzellasept03.pdf

SOS

 

[Archie Swivel]

Yes. I seem to violate that condition as observed post-impact-- must lose it somewhere. Basically, I am suggesting you make sure your grip is not too "strong".

 

[SOS]

I never checked to see if my grip was changing in my left hand. I don't believe it was.

What I do remember doing was trying to "catch raindrops" on my follow-through, similar to what Brain's is doing in photo 8 in his "Never Slice Again" article.

SOS

 

[Archie Swivel]

SOS,

Humor me and hit 5 range balls making sure that left hand grip is neutral and stays neutral. If that's doesn't help, stick your umbrella in the ground 20 feet in front of you and see if the snappers are starting left and going left or are starting straight or right, then going left.- or like cherry said, check your divot direction. Then post your results.

 

[SOS]

quote:Originally posted by Archie Swivel

SOS,

Humor me and hit 5 range balls making sure that left hand grip is neutral and stays neutral. If that's doesn't help, stick your umbrella in the ground 20 feet in front of you and see if the snappers are starting left and going left or are starting straight or right, then going left.- or like cherry said, check your divot direction. Then post your results.

Grip is neutral and stays neutral. Divots were pretty well none existent (very shallow). Snappers started slightly left.

SOS

 

[SOS]

quote:Originally posted by brianman

Probably no axis tilt.

The right foot back set-up helps get the right shoulder DEEP enough to then go DOWNplane.

...hence, A X I S T I L T

Brian,

After pondering your comment, I decided to change my address in a different way. I went back to a standard foot position but pre-tilted abit by moving my hips targetward (aka. reverse K set-up). Also, I moved my head back a inch, or so, and rotated it right (ala. Nicklaus and the recent post of Mike Austin). This changed my eye line to the ball. When I looked at the aft inside quadrant, my left eye viewed a spot nearer the equator. Maintaining this focus keeps my head back and stable. Lastly, my hip motion is more rotational and less translational like your article on pivot calls for. One of Redgoat's Basics helped me to formulate this approach as well.

Anyway, do these changes sound like they will help with Axis tilt and get my right shoulder working downplane better? The snappers seem to be tamed.

Thanks,
SOS

 

[MizunoJoe]

You aren't hitting the inside corner of the ball with a slightly open clubface. To get there you may have to TRY to hit the ball at 7 or even 8 o'clock with the target at 12 o'clock. Do this until you get the ball to start out right of the target. Then adjust until it starts out right and draws back in.

 

[armourall]

quote:Originally posted by SOS

quote:Originally posted by brianman

Probably no axis tilt.

The right foot back set-up helps get the right shoulder DEEP enough to then go DOWNplane.

...hence, A X I S T I L T

Brian,

After pondering your comment, I decided to change my address in a different way. I went back to a standard foot position but pre-tilted abit by moving my hips targetward (aka. reverse K set-up). Also, I moved my head back a inch, or so, and rotated it right (ala. Nicklaus and the recent post of Mike Austin). This changed my eye line to the ball. When I looked at the aft inside quadrant, my left eye viewed a spot nearer the equator. Maintaining this focus keeps my head back and stable. Lastly, my hip motion is more rotational and less translational like your article on pivot calls for. One of Redgoat's Basics helped me to formulate this approach as well.

Anyway, do these changes sound like they will help with Axis tilt and get my right shoulder working downplane better? The snappers seem to be tamed.

Thanks,
SOS

SOS,

A lot of what you're describing sounds familiar, as I've tried the same "fixes." The root of my problems, I found, was swaying hips. Closing your stance, as you discovered, will prevent this. So will pre-establishing the secondary axis tilt (reverse K). However, I've been getting very good with results with this simple thought: allow the lower body to be more passive and simply react naturally to the rotation of your upper body.

 

[SOS]

quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

You aren't hitting the inside corner of the ball with a slightly open clubface. To get there you may have to TRY to hit the ball at 7 or even 8 o'clock with the target at 12 o'clock. Do this until you get the ball to start out right of the target. Then adjust until it starts out right and draws back in.

MJ - In my recent case of snappers you are probably right. However, just to let you know, prior to the snappers my ball flight was more right to left. Unfortunately, it was more of a low flying hook than a control draw. The snappers started after trying for a straighter my initial ball flight.

SOS

 

[SOS]

quote:Originally posted by armourall

quote:Originally posted by SOS

quote:Originally posted by brianman

Probably no axis tilt.

The right foot back set-up helps get the right shoulder DEEP enough to then go DOWNplane.

...hence, A X I S T I L T

Brian,

After pondering your comment, I decided to change my address in a different way. I went back to a standard foot position but pre-tilted abit by moving my hips targetward (aka. reverse K set-up). Also, I moved my head back a inch, or so, and rotated it right (ala. Nicklaus and the recent post of Mike Austin). This changed my eye line to the ball. When I looked at the aft inside quadrant, my left eye viewed a spot nearer the equator. Maintaining this focus keeps my head back and stable. Lastly, my hip motion is more rotational and less translational like your article on pivot calls for. One of Redgoat's Basics helped me to formulate this approach as well.

Anyway, do these changes sound like they will help with Axis tilt and get my right shoulder working downplane better? The snappers seem to be tamed.

Thanks,
SOS

SOS,

A lot of what you're describing sounds familiar, as I've tried the same "fixes." The root of my problems, I found, was swaying hips. Closing your stance, as you discovered, will prevent this. So will pre-establishing the secondary axis tilt (reverse K). However, I've been getting very good with results with this simple thought: allow the lower body to be more passive and simply react naturally to the rotation of your upper body.

Armourall,

Do you consider this a variation of the Swing The Clubhead (STC) approach made famous by Ernest Jones or is it simply just the hand controlled pivot from TGM?

SOS

 

[armourall]

SOS--
More like Hands Controlled Pivot. It became apparent to me when I tried the Tour Tempo cd. There was simply no way to keep up with the tones with excessive lower body movement.