snap release?

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hi there,i've been reading these boards for quite a while now, but ordered the bible by homer kelly just a week ago,so i can be considered a TGM newbie.

alright to get to the point: generally my long game is pretty good, but very dependand on timing, or at least thats my feeling. on one day everything is straight and i hit 13-15 greens in regulation, but when the timing is gone i hit 6 greens max which combined with my horrible short game makes way too many bogies. the reason for missing the greens are usually hooked irons, but also pushes happen. again, depends a lot on the timing i have that day...

so what i need is more persistance.
my current idea to achive this, is that i think, i have a too inconsistant snap release,and to get rid of it i try to make a chip-like movement with the hands through the impact.
that works ok actually, but would love to hear your comments, maybe im going the wrong way there.

here a 7iron, i hope the quality etc is ok.

http://members.kabsi.at/shiva/schorsch_i7_ddl.mov
http://members.kabsi.at/shiva/schorsch_i7_fo.mov

greetings
 

Brian Manzella

Administrator
No snap release there!

You need more of a snap release.

You also need to remove the flip.

Have you seen "Confessions of a Former Flipper"?
 
doesn´t he have a sequenced release with horizontal hinging through the impact?
We play together in the team of our club, and he can really compress the ball, hits it very long and his driver head speed reaches up to 125 mph. So where comes his power from ? (without a snap and enough lag).

btw: so much thx 2 you brian for all your efforts and idealism !
 

EdZ

New
A lot of 'bobbing' in your motion. I'd suggest hitting shots focused on maintaining the flex in your right knee, which will help you stay more level (and will no doubt shorten your motion). Swing 2 or 3 clubs held together or a heavy club, that will help prevent the 'pick up' that starts the head/body moving up.
 

ej20

New
Perhaps he is creating good clubhead speed by flipping.Yoda has said this is possible.

Also his left arm is going from bent to straight through impact which creates more speed but needs perfect timing.Hes added an extra hinge from the left elbow.

If indeed he is creating such high clubhead speed,it's not from a snap release or maximum trigger delay.It looks like a swing that requires good timing and hand eye co-ordination.
 
thx for the replies, ill go check out that flipper movie when im back home tomorrow.

maintainting the right knee flex is in deed something thats always in the back of my head, but i prolly forget about it too often in the end.

interesting observation about the bent left arm, i wonder if i should try to get rid of that.

and yeah, my clubhead speed is well above the average,but would gladly sacrifice some of it for a swing that doesnt rely that much on timing..

looking forward to see how its going on the range today.
thx again :)
 

EdZ

New
quote:Originally posted by brianman

Hate to go against ed, but, I wouldn't touch that knee.

You need to STAY BEHIND THE BALL ON THE DOWNSWING.

No worries Brian, I certainly agree with staying behind it (or rather, not moving center forward as it is now). A more stable center and better balance.

Some eyes closed swings with a heavy club would probably help quite a bit too ;)
 
ditto on head position, could be a result of arms going towards target on backswing
study 6-B-1-D for some consistency
learn the pivot
 

rundmc

Banned
quote:Originally posted by scandres

ditto on head position, could be a result of arms going towards target on backswing
study 6-B-1-D for some consistency
learn the pivot

Yep. And the Right Forearm is ROLLED at the Top (End) instead of being Turned to the Plane. More "width" and keep the Right Forearm Turned = No more too long and "across the line."

Been there done that. It can be fixed.
 
quote:Originally posted by Sondrax

hi there,i've been reading these boards for quite a while now, but ordered the bible by homer kelly just a week ago,so i can be considered a TGM newbie.

alright to get to the point: generally my long game is pretty good, but very dependand on timing, or at least thats my feeling. on one day everything is straight and i hit 13-15 greens in regulation, but when the timing is gone i hit 6 greens max which combined with my horrible short game makes way too many bogies. the reason for missing the greens are usually hooked irons, but also pushes happen. again, depends a lot on the timing i have that day...

so what i need is more persistance.
my current idea to achive this, is that i think, i have a too inconsistant snap release,and to get rid of it i try to make a chip-like movement with the hands through the impact.
that works ok actually, but would love to hear your comments, maybe im going the wrong way there.

here a 7iron, i hope the quality etc is ok.

http://members.kabsi.at/shiva/schorsch_i7_ddl.mov
http://members.kabsi.at/shiva/schorsch_i7_fo.mov

greetings

Could you tell me a bit more on your thought while doing your snap?

Where did you aim your thrust for your driver? How far back behind the ball? At the ball, the sternum, the right foot?

Just a bit of experiment, can you put on a stronger grip, and try to put the right forearm on plane at address, and try to have zero - single shift.(See whether you will feel anything different with your right knee at address, with that strong grip and the right forearm position) Could you show me a Sweep release (non-automatic), with slower wrist action.

Or if you are using Aiming point concept, then try aiming the thrust just opposite your right foot with a driver, and see whether you will top the ball?
 
quote:Originally posted by oztrainee

Could you tell me a bit more on your thought while doing your snap?

Where did you aim your thrust for your driver? How far back behind the ball? At the ball, the sternum, the right foot?

Just a bit of experiment, can you put on a stronger grip, and try to put the right forearm on plane at address, and try to have zero - single shift.(See whether you will feel anything different with your right knee at address, with that strong grip and the right forearm position) Could you show me a Sweep release (non-automatic), with slower wrist action.

well, i didnt snap on purpose and if brian says i actually dont snap at all i guess there just is no snap. i just thought there was.. but maybe i also confused the terms snap and flip a bit.. i just do feel that the inconsistence especially on my short irons comes from bad timing with my hands (althought about that im not so sure about anymore, maybe its also the forearms or the body shifting)

since you were asking about the driver.. here a shot from 3 weeks ago or so:
http://members.kabsi.at/shiva/schorsch_d_ddl.mov
dont have a driver shot from the front unfortunately :/

the thrust hmmm.. if you mean at the impact, id say theres a lot of thrust on my left knee.
or do you mean the thrust in my driver as in: where does it have the greatest speed? i would say with my driver that may be slightly after the ball then, around the left toes's height prolly.

with a stronger grip you mean, to just hold the club more firm? or a stronger right hand?

isnt my right forearm already pretty much on the plane at adress?


quote:try aiming the thrust just opposite your right foot
erm, opposite my right foot? if my imagination of what you mean is correct i think ill rather hit fat shots instead of tops?


quote:Originally posted by brianman
You need to STAY BEHIND THE BALL ON THE DOWNSWING.

quote:Originally posted by EdZ
or rather, not moving center forward as it is now

am i right when i say that means, more body rotation and less shifting?
 
quote:Originally posted by Sondrax

quote:Originally posted by oztrainee

Could you tell me a bit more on your thought while doing your snap?

Where did you aim your thrust for your driver? How far back behind the ball? At the ball, the sternum, the right foot?

Just a bit of experiment, can you put on a stronger grip, and try to put the right forearm on plane at address, and try to have zero - single shift.(See whether you will feel anything different with your right knee at address, with that strong grip and the right forearm position) Could you show me a Sweep release (non-automatic), with slower wrist action.

well, i didnt snap on purpose and if brian says i actually dont snap at all i guess there just is no snap. i just thought there was.. but maybe i also confused the terms snap and flip a bit.. i just do feel that the inconsistence especially on my short irons comes from bad timing with my hands (althought about that im not so sure about anymore, maybe its also the forearms or the body shifting)

since you were asking about the driver.. here a shot from 3 weeks ago or so:
http://members.kabsi.at/shiva/schorsch_d_ddl.mov
dont have a driver shot from the front unfortunately :/

the thrust hmmm.. if you mean at the impact, id say theres a lot of thrust on my left knee.
or do you mean the thrust in my driver as in: where does it have the greatest speed? i would say with my driver that may be slightly after the ball then, around the left toes's height prolly.

with a stronger grip you mean, to just hold the club more firm? or a stronger right hand?

isnt my right forearm already pretty much on the plane at adress?


quote:try aiming the thrust just opposite your right foot
erm, opposite my right foot? if my imagination of what you mean is correct i think ill rather hit fat shots instead of tops?


quote:Originally posted by brianman
You need to STAY BEHIND THE BALL ON THE DOWNSWING.

quote:Originally posted by EdZ
or rather, not moving center forward as it is now

am i right when i say that means, more body rotation and less shifting?

I am just trying to go through the book with you. As it is difficult to workout someone who is a Swinger and Hitter, where you are the only one where you can tell IMO. I presume the question you are asking, you must be a Swinger.

If we look at the book 6-E-2 that is the Aiming Point Concept. The Thrust I am talking about is just like Cracker a Whip, you are aiming the force to a point (IT IS DIFFERENT IN AIMING YOUR HAND)
I was asking you to aim the force to the back foot, now here is a formula for Automatic Release

Fast hand - you should aim the force further back (Closer to a SWEEP)
Slow hand - you can aim the force further to the front (Closer to a SNAP)

Also, it is dependent on the club you are using... longer and lighter club, should aim further back, heavier and shorter club further forward. Where it is all related to the speed.

Is just like bunker shot, you are aiming behind, but the intention is hitting the ball. As per 6-E-2. Experiement it with or without a ball, and aim at various location with different hand speed, you will be amaze the more you aim back, the more forward it will bring your club head to. (Apart from the wrist and hand action, you should be able to feel the CF and let the CF to take care of the accumulator)

By doing the above, experiement, if you can aim the force very close to the ball, then you are doing a SNAP, and if you not, then you must be doing something else.

By as per 12-2-0 Homer mention - Avoid "customizing" it with other Variation until it approaches the "expert" stage. Then follow 3-B

I think it might not be a bad idea to really work through 12-2-0 and try Non-Auto-Sweep and focus on your wrist action (Trigger by the CF)

Looking at your previous swing, I just look at your right foot ... a question there, although is no big deal of having the right foot over rotate at finish.. But I learn that when ever there is a leakage on a player stroke, the right foot will always over rotate. (Particular for those having poor hand action)

Stengthen your Lag loading, you may try to put up with a 10-2-F grip and hit...IMO, this is one of the way of practising Lag Loading... By having a 10-2-F grip (Ugly grip), it should give, even a beginner, to have better alignment in practising Lag Loading... where the shoulder tilt, knee poistion, plane angle,hand action prepare all set automatically. For Advance player like yourself, I think it might be no harm in player with it too.

I think it is always a good idea for TGMer to practise 12-1 and 12-2 where it is easier to tell what is Black, if we learn what is White.
 
quote:Originally posted by RicoSuave05

he can really compress the ball, hits it very long and his driver head speed reaches up to 125 mph. So where comes his power from ? (without a snap and enough lag).

Great shoulder turn takeaway provides the physics for a powerful core rotation downswing after sitting into the left side.
 
quote:Originally posted by Sondrax


maintainting the right knee flex is in deed something thats always in the back of my head, but i prolly forget about it too often in the end.

interesting observation about the bent left arm, i wonder if i should try to get rid of that.

and yeah, my clubhead speed is well above the average,but would gladly sacrifice some of it for a swing that doesnt rely that much on timing..

You should permanently forget about retaining the right knee flex and don't worry about your left arm.

Those with a swing speed of 125 form a very prestigious club, which excludes many tour players. Don't even think about sacrificing that huge advantage - just work on your short game and putting. [8D]
 
quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe
just work on your short game and putting. [8D]

hehe thats the answer i was most afraid of.

thx oztrainee for your detailed answers, ill need some time to really understand all that hehe. very much appreciated input though, ill surly take my time to study it :D
 
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