So let's have the debate....Plane line or Club Face?

[ggsjpc]

Brian, Kev and other instructors,


If a player has to get the face closed sooner with a wedge than they do with a driver, why wouldn't it make sense that stronger grips for short irons and weaker grips for drivers?

I know you mentioned that relative to the plane line that the face is more open with a short iron and that is why you've had greater success with weaker grips. You've mentioned in previous posts that you have had greater success in altering the plane line to get the right relationship of clubface angle and angle of attack.


My question is, do good players have a greater sense of square to the plane line or square to the target? My guess is, based on your findings, that better players have a greater sense of square relative to the plane line.

So, if a player is coming in with a face that is closing too soon with a short iron, do you try and make them swing more left or weaken their grip?

I mentioned before that I think this comparison is going to be the next big debate and I'm curious to see how it goes?

 

[CanadianAMFTeachPro]

Great question. I am of the belief that the grip should be stronger on the wedges and weaker on the driver due to the ball position and forward shaft lean differences found with each club.

I think that combining the slightly altered grips with either a stance line adjustment or spinal tilt adjustment (more vertical on wedges and more tilted on driver) to adjust plane line would give best results.

I'd like to hear some reasoning on the reverse. My understanding of attack angle, path and face would make me think that this would be the simplest way of adjustment.

 

[ggsjpc]

Why, would more shaft lean be benefitted by a stronger grip?

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Why, would more shaft lean be benefitted by a stronger grip?

More lean = more open face to counteract the strong grip.

 

[ggsjpc]

Why does more lean = more open face? Do you mean relatively speaking or it's more open than it would be when the club straightens out?

 

[mb6606]

Brian, Kev and other instructors,


If a player has to get the face closed sooner with a wedge than they do with a driver, why wouldn't it make sense that stronger grips for short irons and weaker grips for drivers?

I know you mentioned that relative to the plane line that the face is more open with a short iron and that is why you've had greater success with weaker grips. You've mentioned in previous posts that you have had greater success in altering the plane line to get the right relationship of clubface angle and angle of attack.


My question is, do good players have a greater sense of square to the plane line or square to the target? My guess is, based on your findings, that better players have a greater sense of square relative to the plane line.

So, if a player is coming in with a face that is closing too soon with a short iron, do you try and make them swing more left or weaken their grip?

I mentioned before that I think this comparison is going to be the next big debate and I'm curious to see how it goes?

Good questions and how does closing of the face relative to the plane line effect the D plane? When I aim left and swing left the ball goes left???

 

[jeffy]

Would another way to do it be to modulate the amount of right wrist bend in the downswing and impact: more for a wedge, less with the driver? Arguably, you wouldn't need to change the grip positioning that way.

 

[CanadianAMFTeachPro]

Jeffy

This is certainly an option as this would be a Hoganesque bowing of the lead wrist. Tough to do at high speed but doable. Altering the grip would give the same square face with differing forward shaft leans.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Brian, Kev and other instructors,


If a player has to get the face closed sooner with a wedge than they do with a driver, why wouldn't it make sense that stronger grips for short irons and weaker grips for drivers?

I know you mentioned that relative to the plane line that the face is more open with a short iron and that is why you've had greater success with weaker grips. You've mentioned in previous posts that you have had greater success in altering the plane line to get the right relationship of clubface angle and angle of attack.


My question is, do good players have a greater sense of square to the plane line or square to the target? My guess is, based on your findings, that better players have a greater sense of square relative to the plane line.

So, if a player is coming in with a face that is closing too soon with a short iron, do you try and make them swing more left or weaken their grip?

I mentioned before that I think this comparison is going to be the next big debate and I'm curious to see how it goes?

I have a number of good players whom have a 0.0 plane line, similar face angle but the down makes their path 3-4* inside out. That would mean they have a sense of the face to the plane line and target.

 

[ggsjpc]

I have a number of good players whom have a 0.0 plane line, similar face angle but the down makes their path 3-4* inside out. That would mean they have a sense of the face to the plane line and target.

So, is it save to assume that you guys are working on trying to hit it straighter by moving the horizontal plane line left? If so, how are the adjusting their face to the new aim or left swing?

 

[Kevin Shields]

Not really. All of the aforementioned like to draw the ball but are getting better at aiming it.

 

[ggsjpc]

Not really. All of the aforementioned like to draw the ball but are getting better at aiming it.

crud, that's the big question I'm trying to find an answer to. How do good golfers adjust the face when they work toward hitting it straighter from a curving swing and how they adjust through the set.

 

[puttmad]

crud, that's the big question I'm trying to find an answer to. How do good golfers adjust the face when they work toward hitting it straighter from a curving swing and how they adjust through the set.

ggsjpc,

Something that may help you clarify the problem...

Take a wedge and set up as if it were a drive, ie. normal grip, mid body hands and left heel ball position...
Then , without moving your arms back or forward, cup your right wrist slightly so as to move the clubhead back about 6-8 inches, or roughly where your ball would be with a wedge...

If you now look at your clubface, it is very open, so rotate your hands anti-clockwise until the face is "square."
If you now look at your hands you will see you have lost view of the knuckles of your left hand, making it very weak in appearance...

Therefore you can now adjust your grip by the corresponding amount...

Same principle for other clubs...