Some numbers for aiming [spreadsheet included!]

[tongzilla]

How far to aim left/right of target assuming straight shot.

Screen Shot 2012-10-08 at 7.16.23 AM | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Can someone help me get more realistic plane angle numbers?

 

[tongzilla]

how come there's a question mark box where i wanted to link my image?

 

[johnnymarlboro]

how come there's a question mark box where i wanted to link my image?

Cause you're doing it wrong. Here you are.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Tour Avg with the Driver is more like 48° and 60° with a 6-iron.

I'll get the straight dope at TrackMan U.

 

[tongzilla]

Tour Avg with the Driver is more like 48° and 60° with a 6-iron.

What I don't understand is- a typical driver lie angle is about 58.5 deg (910D2 - Titleist.com). Why is there a ~10 deg difference between that and the measured plane angle (48 deg)? Seems a bit too much to be explained by sweetspot vs shaft plane.

 

[tongzilla]

Here's the improved chart reflecting more realistic plane angles:



The interesting thing is you pretty much have to aim the same distance left for all iron shots- around 6 yards left.

 

[birly-shirly]

What I don't understand is- a typical driver lie angle is about 58.5 deg (910D2 - Titleist.com). Why is there a ~10 deg difference between that and the measured plane angle (48 deg)? Seems a bit too much to be explained by sweetspot vs shaft plane.

Well, a modern driver might be 7.5" longer than a 6 iron. Lie angles probably change by slightly less than 1* for every half inch in length. Brian's figures square pretty well with that sort of progression - so the real question might be why is the static lie angle 10* more upright? More upright lie angles create an anti-slice bias - but the effect is comparatively modest with low lofted clubs.

 

[bryan@nobackswing.com]

More upright lie angles create an anti-slice bias - but the effect is comparatively modest with low lofted clubs.

birly, can you expand on this?

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

birly, can you expand on this?

The more loft on a club the more acute the lie angle thus the more sensitive lie angle is to face alignment.

 

[tongzilla]

I'm not sure about Jim's explanation...

But lie angle too upright = at impact the clubhead is more upright than it should be (toe up) = the clubface normal

is pointing left of target for a square leading edge.

 

[tongzilla]

The more loft on a club the more acute the lie angle thus the more sensitive lie angle is to face alignment.

Oh I get what you mean now. Zero degree loft driver would not have it's effective clubface direction affected by lie angle.

Another point that has nothing to do with lie angles- the lower the loft of the club, the less the spin loft (d-plane), the more a given divergence between path/face angle will cause a bigger change in spin axis.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Another point that has nothing to do with lie angles- the lower the loft of the club, the less the spin loft (d-plane), the more a given divergence between path/face angle will cause a bigger change in spin axis.

Seems like someone is leeeaaarrrnnning lol.

 

[birly-shirly]

birly, can you expand on this?

bryan - jim and tong have probably already answered your question. If you want to know more, I like this video from John Graham Clubface Direction - YouTube

 

[bryan@nobackswing.com]

The more loft on a club the more acute the lie angle thus the more sensitive lie angle is to face alignment.

Oh I get what you mean now. Zero degree loft driver would not have it's effective clubface direction affected by lie angle.

Another point that has nothing to do with lie angles- the lower the loft of the club, the less the spin loft (d-plane), the more a given divergence between path/face angle will cause a bigger change in spin axis.

bryan - jim and tong have probably already answered your question. If you want to know more, I like this video from John Graham Clubface Direction - YouTube

thanks guys, what i meant was for properly fitted clubs, would the golfer with more upright lie angles have any anti-slice bias vs the one with the flatter clubs. i play with very upright wedges and irons and they fit me well, but i am aware there are some slight differences between upright and flat based on the geometry of the d-plane.

for example, the upright swinger will tend to have a clubpath and clubface squarer to the target line longer, but will also have a steeper path into and out of impact. (croquet mallet)

the flat swinger will have a clubpath and clubface that aren't square to the target as long, but won't be as steep near contact. (pinball flipper)

i've never seen data on the magnitude of these differences and if they are large enough to make any difference in a real world golf swing, although i've heard some people make arguments that history's best ballstrikers have tended to have flat clubs.

 

[tongzilla]

thanks guys, what i meant was for properly fitted clubs, would the golfer with more upright lie angles have any anti-slice bias vs the one with the flatter clubs. i play with very upright wedges and irons and they fit me well, but i am aware there are some slight differences between upright and flat based on the geometry of the d-plane.

for example, the upright swinger will tend to have a clubpath and clubface squarer to the target line longer, but will also have a steeper path into and out of impact. (croquet mallet)

the flat swinger will have a clubpath and clubface that aren't square to the target as long, but won't be as steep near contact. (pinball flipper)

i've never seen data on the magnitude of these differences and if they are large enough to make any difference in a real world golf swing, although i've heard some people make arguments that history's best ballstrikers have tended to have flat clubs.

Everything else same, more upright lie angle = face pointing more to the left....I guess you can call that 'anti slice bias'.

A completely separate issue is the question whether a more upright swing = more tendency to slice. Probably true ala the never hook again pattern.