im quite a decent player, i like to think, and onew of my fundamentals has always been to keep the left arm straight and extended throughout the backswing and the downswing until post impact when both arms are straight, the follow through. i can see that brian allows his left arm to fold goin back. i believe this is a big problem as it needs to be straightening as you come into the hit. fred couples has had a small action like this. i cant see any particular advantage to letting the left arm bend on the backswing. can anyone tell me why they allow this?
straight left arm
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jeffgladchun
New
flexibility issues I would assume.
but both Brian and Couples play pretty well with it.
but both Brian and Couples play pretty well with it.
self-mastery
New
It is unnecessary to keep your left arm straight; It will obviously straighten on the downswing.
There is one school of thought that claims that a bent left arm creates a longer lever and more power (5th power accumulator?)
The only time I -actively- keep my left arm straight is when I'm tinkering with my cupped left wrist-arched at impact beat down fade pattern (gosh I understand Hogan better than his biggest fans
)
There is one school of thought that claims that a bent left arm creates a longer lever and more power (5th power accumulator?)
The only time I -actively- keep my left arm straight is when I'm tinkering with my cupped left wrist-arched at impact beat down fade pattern (gosh I understand Hogan better than his biggest fans
)
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Billy_the_worm
New
If your left foot stays planted its pretty diffiult not to let the left arm bend
it is a flexibility issue. if that was the case, i would tell somone to turn their hips more, to allow this extension. you would not allow someone to create an extra vector by flipping or bending the left wrist, and i feel the left arm is the same. for the left shoulder to remain the centre of the arc, then the left elbow must remain inert and notbend. slight bending is not terrible, but big bending just encourages flipping
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
Sounds like you are a victim of pop instruction...there have been a lot of phenominal players who have played with either a 'soft' left arm or even a 'bent' left arm.
from my experience (both before and after teaching), average golfers are trying to keep their arm "too straight".
sorry jim, but i dont listen to pop instruction.
if the left arm is the radius of the swing, letting it fold is only detrimental to the swing. obviously if it is bent, it must be straighten again some time before impact. much like 'timing the flip', you must time the straightening action. its not as serious as flipping the hands, but doesnt help. most people will try to keep their arm straight, AND not release and pivot enough goin back.
i believe width is essential to a good swing. you cannot achieve width if you donot clear the hips goin back enough, for you. if you are flexible enough, you wont need as much hip turn as someone who isnt as flexible.
if the left arm folds, too many variables are introduced into the equation
Billy_the_worm
New
I think for beginners the big bending left arm is a result of poor hip rotation and/or reverse pivot
self-mastery
New
Explain how a bent left arm is detrimental.
As of late I seem to be breaking all of the 'rules': Soft left arm (check)
, HCP(check), semi-controlled flip release (check).
I stand by my signature, control those 3 elements and you can do anything with a golf ball.
As of late I seem to be breaking all of the 'rules': Soft left arm (check)
, HCP(check), semi-controlled flip release (check).
I stand by my signature, control those 3 elements and you can do anything with a golf ball.
one problem.
letting the left arm bend enables the club get to a 'top' position without an effective pivot being made. an incomplete backswing means over rotation on the downswing or a lateral move and getting too far forward or flipping.
second problem.
if it is bent at the top, it will have to be straightened. now if an effective pivot and turn ocurrs, then centrifical force can straighten the arm, to a degree. it still requires some correction on behalf of the player, as he cannot rely totally on this force. if there is no effective pivot or movement through the ball, it will remain pretty bent, and cause a flipping action.
third problem.
if it is bent, there is lack of extension, and therefore a power loss.
fourth problem.
it bending will probably be a result of an overly early wrist set, which in turn leads to early release, and flipping.
in general it creates just too many variables, which just complicate the matter
letting the left arm bend enables the club get to a 'top' position without an effective pivot being made. an incomplete backswing means over rotation on the downswing or a lateral move and getting too far forward or flipping.
second problem.
if it is bent at the top, it will have to be straightened. now if an effective pivot and turn ocurrs, then centrifical force can straighten the arm, to a degree. it still requires some correction on behalf of the player, as he cannot rely totally on this force. if there is no effective pivot or movement through the ball, it will remain pretty bent, and cause a flipping action.
third problem.
if it is bent, there is lack of extension, and therefore a power loss.
fourth problem.
it bending will probably be a result of an overly early wrist set, which in turn leads to early release, and flipping.
in general it creates just too many variables, which just complicate the matter
Yes -- but many good players pivot correctly and show some bend in the left arm at the top and through the early part of the transition. IMO it's a worse sin to try and force the left arm straight if it doesn't want to be straight.
dont get me wrong, a 'soft' left arm is not so much of a problem, it will be straightened without much conscious thought, and actively keeping the left arm rigid is also a big problem, but BIG bending of the left arm is a bigger problem, IMO
Eamon Darcy never seemed to let it affect him....
self-mastery
New
Are we talking about hackers or players?
It isn't as serious as you suggest.
It isn't as serious as you suggest.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Pecky...
With all due respect Pecky...
You couldn't be more wrong.
There are multitude of physical reasons why one golfer's arm is more bent at the top than another.
For example, Harry Vardon bent his arm more than Bobby Jones, although they both did plenty.
That tweed coat didn't help.
Mike Finney, 6'0" 155, and Brian Manzella 5'9" 200, are built very different, and trust me, after my 97% rotator cuff tear was PERFECTLY repaired by Mike's brother—Tim Finney, New Orleans Saints Team Doctor—my arm bends more than it did before.
But, you see, Pecky, there IS THE EXACT SAME ABOUT OF SLACK—OR NO SLACK—IN MY SWING NOW (MORE BENT) AS THERE WAS BEFORE (LESS BENT).
When the first batch of research was done for "left arm bend" at the top, for a driver, in the early 80's, the average bend on the PGA TOUR was 30°!
I teach some folks to bend their arm on purpose—for effect.
Some folks need more stretch.
You are in the right place to learn—and it is clear, that in this area, there is a lot to take place.
I'll do my best to help.
With all due respect Pecky...
You couldn't be more wrong.
There are multitude of physical reasons why one golfer's arm is more bent at the top than another.
For example, Harry Vardon bent his arm more than Bobby Jones, although they both did plenty.
That tweed coat didn't help.
Mike Finney, 6'0" 155, and Brian Manzella 5'9" 200, are built very different, and trust me, after my 97% rotator cuff tear was PERFECTLY repaired by Mike's brother—Tim Finney, New Orleans Saints Team Doctor—my arm bends more than it did before.
But, you see, Pecky, there IS THE EXACT SAME ABOUT OF SLACK—OR NO SLACK—IN MY SWING NOW (MORE BENT) AS THERE WAS BEFORE (LESS BENT).
When the first batch of research was done for "left arm bend" at the top, for a driver, in the early 80's, the average bend on the PGA TOUR was 30°!
I teach some folks to bend their arm on purpose—for effect.
Some folks need more stretch.
You are in the right place to learn—and it is clear, that in this area, there is a lot to take place.
I'll do my best to help.
START HERE: Slack vs. bend is NOT a 1:1 ratio for ANYONE, but differs from golfer to golfer.
The opinions expressed in this thread reflect a total lack of understanding of human anatomy/biomechanics. The reason why many inflexible golfers bend their left arm in the late backswing is due to a lack of flexibility, and the lack of flexibility has nothing to do with the degree of hip rotation or upper body rotation around the spine. The major limiting factor is tightness of the shoulder girdle muscles which prevent the scapula from sliding across the back so that the left shoulder socket can move further fowards towards the front of the body.
The consequence of a slightly bent left elbow in the late backswing is insignificant, because the left arm always straightens during the downswing due to extensor action (right hand pulling the left arm straight) and due to pulling forces from the club itself as it acquires momentum through the mid-late downswing.
Young, flexible, golfers should maintain the left arm straight, but elderly inflexible golfers should not worry if they allow the left arm to bend slightly in the late backswing.
Jeff
The consequence of a slightly bent left elbow in the late backswing is insignificant, because the left arm always straightens during the downswing due to extensor action (right hand pulling the left arm straight) and due to pulling forces from the club itself as it acquires momentum through the mid-late downswing.
Young, flexible, golfers should maintain the left arm straight, but elderly inflexible golfers should not worry if they allow the left arm to bend slightly in the late backswing.
Jeff
i say again, i dont expect EVERYONE to have a perfectly straight left arm. and i haven't done myself any favors in this thread already. width is important in the golfswing, everyone agrees with that. the left arm remaining RELATIVELY STRAIGHT is the only way this can happen. it can be soft, or slightly bent, but a large bend, mabye around 40 degrees or around that mark, is hardly helping the swing. brian has talked about how for some players, who aren't as flexible, need more hip-turn in the backswing to make a complete backswing. a very bent left arm is a sure fire sign of an imcomplete backswing. i think it is wrong IMHO that teachers tell students to actively bend the arm going back, and completely remove turn goin back. this really is wrong, and believe not many people will disagree with me on that
self-mastery
New
Why SHOULD the young and flexible maintain their left arm straight? A straight left arm is most likely a consequence of those attributes, it is not an imperative for anyone,
I allow my 9yr old niece to have a soft left arm, and she hits it exceptionally well for a kid that is more interested in Hannah Montana than golf. My favorite moment was watching her out drive the boys at golf camp... Golf is too easy
Obese on information, anorexic on application...
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