Strong right hand - confused?

[ThomasTheTank]

I was always led to believe that turning your hands to the right on the club (for RHers) led to a stronger grip so a strong right hand grip has your right hand more under the club

However with my action (twistaway and RFP) and a fairly strong left hand which leaves me with a flat left wrist at the top then when I come down from here I always leave the club open and cut the ball

I find that if I have my right hand much more on top of the club (with up to 3knuckles showing) then its far easier to get and feel the right hand working over the left and the right forearm rotating through impact. Is this a hitters grip?

Should I be worried about this? It seems to me a strong right hand grip is with more knuckles showing not less?

 

[shootin4par]

I tried to start a discussion on the advantages of your right hand being more on top, while the left hand is in a stronger position, but no one seemed willing to talk much about it. Hogan gripped it this way, daly does, looks like adam scott does, etc,.....
this is my thought/understanding, http://www.brianmanzella.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7002

 

[dbl]

Maybe yes maybe no. A weak RH does bad things for me, mainly not letting me get a fully flat LW. I'm not sure about why your 3 knuckle RH grip works, but you may have some other setup aspects or motions which that helps. I guess I'd say, look for those other areas and clean them up.

 

[Perfect Impact]

A right hand somewhat on top of the left thumb and shaft is VERY MUCH DIRECTLY ON PLANE for a downswing thrust of the club and left hand into the back inside of the ball. Instead of being "beside" the clubshaft, the base of the right hand is ABOVE it, in the best possible position for applying great rh thrust. I do believe this is the reason Hogan's RH was so weak! Actually it is a shame to use that terminology for something so powerful as that position during the time real force applied to the club does the most good - on the way down TO the ball, not waiting only to be applied AT the ball when it's too late to do much good.

 

[Brian Manzella]

The right hand's job.

The right hand's job is to ALLOW the golfer to make the movement that they want to with their LEFT HAND, while sensing the clubHEAD and its lag.

Of course it ALSO could be to PREVENT the golfer from making a movement that they DON'T want to with their LEFT HAND, while sensing the clubHEAD and its lag.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

How "weak" or "strong" you place the right hand on the grip plays a large role on how fast your are going to roll your #3 accumulator.

So if you play a strong left hand grip but don't want to play such a huge draw all the time, weaken the right hand and the face won't close so rapidly.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Good one, Jimmy.

Just as I said...

Also, it will influence ELBOW POSITION as well.

 

[shootin4par]

would you expand on what ways you believe it influences elbow position? seems that a strong right hand would make a flying right elbow easier, whre as one on top would help to keep the elbow more in front of the chest and to not let it get as high in the back swing

 

[danny_shank]

would you expand on what ways you believe it influences elbow position? seems that a strong right hand would make a flying right elbow easier, whre as one on top would help to keep the elbow more in front of the chest and to not let it get as high in the back swing

It might just be me going loopy, but isn't it the oposite. The strong right hand seems to rotate the right elbow closer to a pitch position.

 

[shootin4par]

It might just be me going loopy, but isn't it the oposite. The strong right hand seems to rotate the right elbow closer to a pitch position.

I understand your reasoneing, cause on first thought it seems logical. Now I also could be wrong, as there are people more experienced then me, but I did some mirror work with this and body work without a club as well. Try this one, without a club take address position, put left arm behind back, switch between a really stong right hand positoin, and a right hand positoin where the V points towards the chin. make back swings and try to get the right arm in the classic "tray position"

 

[dbl]

Not for me. Whatever the RH grip position, I can always get the right hand and elbow at the top in the same position - it's just that the clubface is in way different positions. Also with that, of course, the left hand may be bent or arched depending on the original grip conditions.

 

[ThomasTheTank]

You see personally I still find this confusing .. I am in the process of deconstructing all I believed about the grip, swing etc because I find it so much of it unhelpful. So when the words 'strong right hand' are mentioned, I assume thats the classical strong right hand with the right hand turned under. To me this is weak

Perhaps it helps to explain what I am trying to do. On the way down I want to release the accumulators later into my downswing by drive out (hitting I think).

If I have the classic strong right hand grip I find the right hand has to start pushing and turning from the top .. this casts the club (for me anyway) and I find it harder to maintain the flat left wrist. With my right hand more on top I can delay this rolling a fraction and get a real zip through impact by pulling the club down and through the ball and having the right hand turn 'down' naturally about hip height. Left wrist is still flat. By then moving my ball position/alignment I can hit draws/fades as I need to. The latter method seems to give me more clubhead speed. Perhaps I am unusual

As soon as that right hand is under the shaft I need to do far more work to get the hands squared and roll the forearms (release the accumulators). As I believe I have a hitting action I want the right hand to drive down and turn over thus forcing the left arm to rotate. All controlled by the right hand. So to me a strong right hand in this action, is where it is more on top of the club and I can feel it turning over aggresively through impact

I hope im making sense here! I am still new to TGM, love the concepts but am trying to apply how I hit the ball best to some of its methods. What I think I am doing is applying the accumulators in a more efficient manner like this?

 

[ThomasTheTank]

I understand your reasoneing, cause on first thought it seems logical. Now I also could be wrong, as there are people more experienced then me, but I did some mirror work with this and body work without a club as well. Try this one, without a club take address position, put left arm behind back, switch between a really stong right hand positoin, and a right hand positoin where the V points towards the chin. make back swings and try to get the right arm in the classic "tray position"

I agree with you. I have a twistaway, right forearm pickup motion with a strong left hand and right hand on top as discussed and I have no problem getting a flat left wrist and a right forearm which matches my spine angle

 

[danny_shank]

shootin4par i tried your drill...

I understand your reasoneing, cause on first thought it seems logical. Now I also could be wrong, as there are people more experienced then me, but I did some mirror work with this and body work without a club as well. Try this one, without a club take address position, put left arm behind back, switch between a really stong right hand positoin, and a right hand positoin where the V points towards the chin. make back swings and try to get the right arm in the classic "tray position"

shootin4par i tried your drill and the weak right hand grip definitely felt more like a 'pitch' motion, the strong grip felt much more flying. But i was surprised when i checked in the mirror i couldn't really see any noticable difference in their location at the end of my backwsing. I think this could be because you subconsciously rotate the elbow to a more neutral location, thus the weak grip rotates the elbow towards pitch and vice versa (for the strong grip). Which accounts for the very different feels.

 

[shootin4par]

shootin4par i tried your drill and the weak right hand grip definitely felt more like a 'pitch' motion, the strong grip felt much more flying. But i was surprised when i checked in the mirror i couldn't really see any noticable difference in their location at the end of my backwsing. I think this could be because you subconsciously rotate the elbow to a more neutral location, thus the weak grip rotates the elbow towards pitch and vice versa (for the strong grip). Which accounts for the very different feels.

what I also did was with the different right hand positions, while gripping a club, was try to make the right hand fly as much as possible, the right hand strong let me get the right elbow more up and back behind me.

 

[Perfect Impact]

S4P: GOOD FOR YOU for experimenting, sounding out the ramifications of various options and their impact on what works for you best. Different physical anatomical features such as range of motion, girth, etc. are relevant and I don't think a good workable, repeatable, easy swing is EVER going to be possible for anyone until he has located the most comfortable things for himself, provided he doesn't violate the integrity required of alignments.

Right on! When I teach I have a pupil do "too much, too little" of various options for the purpose OF locating the middle and optimum in each issue (distance of feet, flare of left foot, strong or weak grip, relative positions of hand to hand, posture high or low, arms stretched or loose, and so on.)

Great post and approach.

 

[shootin4par]

S4P: GOOD FOR YOU for experimenting, sounding out the ramifications of various options and their impact on what works for you best. Different physical anatomical features such as range of motion, girth, etc. are relevant and I don't think a good workable, repeatable, easy swing is EVER going to be possible for anyone until he has located the most comfortable things for himself, provided he doesn't violate the integrity required of alignments.

Right on! When I teach I have a pupil do "too much, too little" of various options for the purpose OF locating the middle and optimum in each issue (distance of feet, flare of left foot, strong or weak grip, relative positions of hand to hand, posture high or low, arms stretched or loose, and so on.)

Great post and approach.

thanks,
my goal lately has turned towards being focused on setting up properly, and adding in a swing trigger like a forward press. I feel I have gained a better understanding of exactly what the hands can do, meaning what types of causes and effects they have in the golf swing, and how detrimental a grip can be. beyond that there are very few things that I feel need to be focuesed on and lately I have had better impact, and sometimes perfect impact.
thanks again

 

[dbl]

If I have the classic strong right hand grip I find the right hand has to start pushing and turning from the top .. this casts the club (for me anyway) and I find it harder to maintain the flat left wrist. With my right hand more on top I can delay this rolling a fraction and get a real zip through impact by pulling the club down and through the ball and having the right hand turn 'down' naturally about hip height. Left wrist is still flat. By then moving my ball position/alignment I can hit draws/fades as I need to. The latter method seems to give me more clubhead speed. Perhaps I am unusual

As soon as that right hand is under the shaft I need to do far more work to get the hands squared and roll the forearms (release the accumulators).

I do not think the weak RH grip works well with Twistaway, as you said elsewhere you do (or have done). As to "rolling the forearms", that is a kind of perversion which might be affecting this and to which a weak grip might help, but imo, if that is the case then improving the pivot might be more in order.