"Strongish" grips

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smooth

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Hi there, have been trying to use the manzella neutral grip for a while now but in competitive play have been hitting my irons a bit weak, right and short (not much compression) along with the odd snap hook with the driver.

At the range yesterday strengthened my left hand grip back to something like a strong single action for TGMer's.

The ball flight straightened out immediately and could feel and sustain the lag better - removed the high rights AND the snap hooks.

Looking through the archives Brian advocates to do whatever you have to to hit it straight. I seem to hit it a lot better with this grip but all previous instructors have tried to change it.

I can execute all the various hinge actions 8/10 times with a 'neutral' grip and on the range, but when it goes down to the wire the stronger grip gives me the best chance of success... i can just stand up there and hit it as hard as i want...... should i stick with it?

Cheers
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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Are you compressing it with a divot???

Just trying to make sure your grip strengthening isn't a band-aid for a too open face.

BTW...

I've been meaning to ask...

What's the deal with TGM's SSA grip.......??

It is supposed to be vertical/vertical left/right wrists at address. But at the same time it has been said (many times I should add) to be stronger than what Brian calls neutral?

I have never understood this.
 
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jenhaoyen

jenhaoyen

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smooth said:
Hi there, have been trying to use the manzella neutral grip for a while now but in competitive play have been hitting my irons a bit weak, right and short (not much compression) along with the odd snap hook with the driver.

At the range yesterday strengthened my left hand grip back to something like a strong single action for TGMer's.

The ball flight straightened out immediately and could feel and sustain the lag better - removed the high rights AND the snap hooks.

Looking through the archives Brian advocates to do whatever you have to to hit it straight. I seem to hit it a lot better with this grip but all previous instructors have tried to change it.

I can execute all the various hinge actions 8/10 times with a 'neutral' grip and on the range, but when it goes down to the wire the stronger grip gives me the best chance of success... i can just stand up there and hit it as hard as i want...... should i stick with it?

Cheers
Click to expand...
you should..stick with it if it works constantly. Let's say if you start hitting bad shot next week..then you are probably doing somethingw rong. Everytime i use a stronger grip the balls hook immediately.
 
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smooth

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birdie_man said:
Are you compressing it with a divot???
Click to expand...

Yep. just finding with the slightly stronger grip it helps me to retain lag pressure better and helps me NOT to hook it !... also don't have to worry about shanks creeping in or other inconsistent contact
 
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2mongoose

2mongoose

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Smooth,

Why wouldn't you stick with it?

I've always thought grip changes take time too. Tough to be comfortable in the beginning and "trust" it.
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
So-called "Manzella Neutral" grip.

The "leading-edge-matching-the-visually-flat-left-wrist" maybe ok to call the "Manzella Neutral," but it is NOT THE "Manzella Recommended" grip.

Maybe for Slicers.

Sounds like a great topic for "MANZELLA LIVE!"...which will preview this week, and debut no later than two weeks from tomorrow.
 
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smooth

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2mongoose said:
Smooth,
Why wouldn't you stick with it?
Click to expand...

Very good point !

Just wanted to ensure that by doing so that i wasn't going to build too many compensations by doing so and perhaps limit my progress.

I've given the neutral grip a good 6 months worth of practice and playing to the point where i know what to do with it most of the time but the slightly stronger grip is more consistent and gives me a much greater feel of the clubhead. It also seems to give me a lot more 'leverage' to help close the face

BTW when talking slightly stronger i'm talking perhaps 20degrees stronger than 'manzella neutral' when measuring the clubface to a flat left wrist

The ballflight with this grip is dead straight to soft draw with the driver. No sign of a fade as yet
 
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holeout

New
I think that Brian would sum up grip choice by saying something like,

"Once you've learned to control the clubface and rotate your left arm through impact with a 'Manzella Neutral' grip, try gripping the club the way that 80+% of the HOF did :)."

I know you already replied and are doing the Manzella Live thing soon, but how close did I come?
 
watson08

watson08

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I think Holeout makes an excellent point that could be used to address Tongzilla's question. IMO, you've got rotate the left arm through impact. A stronger grip promotes more/faster left arm rotation through impact. Might this be why Tom Watson recommends playing with as strong as grip as you can get away with? Of course, there is a limit that each individual has to find.
 
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holeout

New
watson08 said:
I think Holeout makes an excellent point that could be used to address Tongzilla's question. IMO, you've got rotate the left arm through impact. A stronger grip promotes more/faster left arm rotation through impact. Might this be why Tom Watson recommends playing with as strong as grip as you can get away with? Of course, there is a limit that each individual has to find.
Click to expand...

Actually, you've got it backwards. A more neutral grip promotes more left arm rotation. If you have a neutral grip, and don't rotate your left arm, you'll hit it straight right.

A stronger grip discourages left arm rotation, which is why it is bad for slicers.
 
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swingobsessed

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How to swing with a strong grip

I would love to hear more about this during Manzella live. I am interested in what compensations one has to make to swing with a strong grip. I watch Zach Johnson swing with his super strong grip and I can't figure out how he pulls that off. When I swing with a grip that strong, I pull and/or hook it off of the planet. However, the club feels much more comfortable to me in a strong position. I would love to know what compensations or changes one has to make to swing with a strong grip. No matter how neutral I try and make my grip to compensate for pulls, my mind just tends to want to slowly move it back to strong; especially the right hand.
 
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pecky987

New
swingobsessed said:
I would love to hear more about this during Manzella live. I am interested in what compensations one has to make to swing with a strong grip. I watch Zach Johnson swing with his super strong grip and I can't figure out how he pulls that off. When I swing with a grip that strong, I pull and/or hook it off of the planet. However, the club feels much more comfortable to me in a strong position. I would love to know what compensations or changes one has to make to swing with a strong grip. No matter how neutral I try and make my grip to compensate for pulls, my mind just tends to want to slowly move it back to strong; especially the right hand.
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more and more players are using strong grips because it helps them hit it straight whilst also hitting it long. most of the long drivers do it. bubba, freddy, john daly, and those LDA guys like jesse petterson and mike dobbyn. theres a few reasons for this.

1. the more you load the shaft, the harder it is to square the face.
2. the later your release, the harder it is to square the face.
3. the more accumulator lag you have, the harder it is to square the face.

to hit it long you need those things, mostly. so a strong grip means you can have those things and keep the face relatively square
 
watson08

watson08

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holeout said:
Actually, you've got it backwards. A more neutral grip promotes more left arm rotation. If you have a neutral grip, and don't rotate your left arm, you'll hit it straight right.

A stronger grip discourages left arm rotation, which is why it is bad for slicers.
Click to expand...

I have made the same point you are making in the past. To me, this is an important point. Let me try to clarify my situation. Perhaps it does not relate to you or others who have for years been rotating the clubface off the plane by rotating their left arm in the downswing, but I think it might strike a cord with other flippers who have never done this properly.

I tried for approximately the last 6 months to play with a "Manzella neutral" grip. The idea here was this would allow "more room" for left arm rotation in the downswing. This too is more or less the point you are making above - I think. Well, I just was not rotating the club face off the plane consistently enough with this grip. Perhaps my "hands" were (are?) just too slow to make this move from a neutral position. Or, perhaps I just need to train myself to rotate the clubface correctly. Whatever the case, inconsistent compression was the result for me - a confessed flipper. When I switched to a stronger left hand grip (temporary?) and tried to rotate my left arm in the downswing, I immediately got back the compression, distance, and accuracy I've been missing for a while now. The stronger left hand grip has put me (a flipper) in a position where I can finally rotate the club face through impact and not flip it, i.e., it is the sole thing I changed I immediately got the rotation I'd been missing.
 
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swingobsessed

New
pecky987 said:
more and more players are using strong grips because it helps them hit it straight whilst also hitting it long. most of the long drivers do it. bubba, freddy, john daly, and those LDA guys like jesse petterson and mike dobbyn. theres a few reasons for this.

1. the more you load the shaft, the harder it is to square the face.
2. the later your release, the harder it is to square the face.
3. the more accumulator lag you have, the harder it is to square the face.

to hit it long you need those things, mostly. so a strong grip means you can have those things and keep the face relatively square
Click to expand...

What compensations are they making to play that grip though? It looks like they do not fully release the club. Maybe that is the wrong term, maybe a different type of release. It almost looks like the club face points to the sky in the follow-through, almost like they are holding it off to avoid hooking; whereas, when you look at a swing like Tiger's his hands really appear to turn over.
 
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pecky987

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swingobsessed said:
What compensations are they making to play that grip though? It looks like they do not fully release the club. Maybe that is the wrong term, maybe a different type of release. It almost looks like the club face points to the sky in the follow-through, almost like they are holding it off to avoid hooking; whereas, when you look at a swing like Tiger's his hands really appear to turn over.
Click to expand...

they are absolutely holding it off, because if they didnt the ball would go miles left. tigers hands may turn over if he wants to hit a draw, but he'd have a similar look to those strong grip guys if he was hitting a fade
 
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swingobsessed

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pecky987 said:
they are absolutely holding it off, because if they didnt the ball would go miles left. tigers hands may turn over if he wants to hit a draw, but he'd have a similar look to those strong grip guys if he was hitting a fade
Click to expand...

So back to my question, how do you hold it off (i.e. execute a shot with a strong grip). Sounds simple enough, looks simple enough, but I can't seem to stop the club face from rotating.
 
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