Swing Compensation(s) for Senior Golfers

[malone]

Information, and engaging interaction/discussion grounded in that information, is a hallmark of this forum. Sharing the new science of the modern golf swing is interesting and, for me, sometimes useful. However, as a senior golfer (just turned 67) with decent swing fundamentals and skills from my distant youth, applying what I come to understand is difficult. For the record, I exercise and do my best to prepare my body...I am somewhat athletic, again from my distant youth...but no longer anything near an athlete. The above is preamble to a request and a question.
Request: Could there be some threads or a section dedicated to...with all due respect...the amateur, near-senior and senior-age golfer?

Question: What possible "compensations" to setup, stance, swing motion, etc. might be appropriate for seniors experiencing diminishing rotational ability?

Respectfully submitted.

 

[bertsmith]

Perhaps BM will oblige.

 

[art]

Information, and engaging interaction/discussion grounded in that information, is a hallmark of this forum. Sharing the new science of the modern golf swing is interesting and, for me, sometimes useful. However, as a senior golfer (just turned 67) with decent swing fundamentals and skills from my distant youth, applying what I come to understand is difficult. For the record, I exercise and do my best to prepare my body...I am somewhat athletic, again from my distant youth...but no longer anything near an athlete. The above is preamble to a request and a question.
Request: Could there be some threads or a section dedicated to...with all due respect...the amateur, near-senior and senior-age golfer?

Question: What possible "compensations" to setup, stance, swing motion, etc. might be appropriate for seniors experiencing diminishing rotational ability?

Respectfully submitted.

Dear malone,

Welcome aboard, I joined this great and informative site a few years ago and have made some wonderful new friends, and learned much about the game of golf too.

My passion, as also a senior with some college athletics and now retired, has been a desire to improve in golf which led me 7 years ago into a comfort zone of studying and expanding on the role of science in seeking what I have been calling 'golf truth'. This in turn has taken me to the science-based details of the importance of dynamic balance and stability control ESPECIALLY for the amateur and senior golfing communities.

After a very informative 3 hour session at the Titleist Performance Institute in Oceanside California in late 2007, my priorities switched to (1) minimize injury potential, (2) increase distance and (3) increase accuracy/minimize dispersion. So far, the independent research on injury potential has only been with regard to the lower back, however what we are learning applies to your comment about diminished rotational ability.

So, as a starter, please just 'Google' search on "Bumpy Back" and follow the first link suggested right back to this Brian Manzella.com site. I will be happy to answer any questions you develop by PM, or on this thread if of general interest to other seniors.

Again, welcome,
art

I

 

[tongzilla]

I noticed a lot of great senior players set up more closed compared to when they were younger.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Dropping the right foot, allowing the left heel to rise, spreading your elbows at the top, etc. things along those lines may increase range of motion. That is to say nothing about an exercise/stretching regimen.

What is your ballflight issues and game like right now compared to ten years ago?

 

[mgranato]

I'll have some K-Vest and Flightscope numbers soon on a 67 year old good golfer with the primary focus being on setup, posture, and trying to regain some of that rotational ability. Be happy to share what we find if interested.

 

[ausfreddy]

Dropping the right foot, allowing the left heel to rise, spreading your elbows at the top, etc. things along those lines may increase range of motion. That is to say nothing about an exercise/stretching regimen.

What is your ballflight issues and game like right now compared to ten years ago?

Does spreading the elbows equate to a touch of flying right elbow?

 

[malone]

Art: Thanks, doing the search.

Kevin: I am exercising, stretching; biggest ball flight issue has been pull/pull hook with longer clubs, ball starts straight or right of aim line and overcooks left. I know that's a FACE and path issue but have struggled to normalize.

mgranato: actually had a multi-lesson K-vest experience about 5-years ago...as I recall hips never open enough through impact...interested in the numbers for your 67-year old student.

Thanks to all.

 

[malone]

Art: in establishing BBKIB, are toe line and shoulders square to target or swing path when the right hip is pre-turned @4 inches? If so, am I correct that shoulders would be open relative to the BBKIB hips at address?

Thanks.

 

[BrendanC]

Best older players I see are pretty handsy!

 

[art]

Art: in establishing BBKIB, are toe line and shoulders square to target or swing path when the right hip is pre-turned @4 inches? If so, am I correct that shoulders would be open relative to the BBKIB hips at address?

Thanks.

Dear malone,

Yes that is a correct description of the positions at the end of the set up. BUT... In the research papers I reviewed, I uncovered a term that I prefer to use, and that is PRE-ACTIVATION, which has meaning regarding the stretch-shorten energy releases and timing/sequences that will follow in the muscle slings that (will soon) produce the better dynamically balanced down swing.

As to the 4 inches you noted, this value will be different for different golfers, and again from my experiences prefer to treat this value as a 'personal' set-up condition you vary, to find YOUR best condition. As an example, for some simply asking them to 'take up the rotary SLACK' clockwise in the rear hip is sufficient.

Please let us know of your experiences.

Sincerely,
art

 

[dbl]

Kevin, if you have pics on your computer, then use your web browser and go to a site like postimage.org
hit Choose File (go to your computer's folder with the images)
double click file
Hit Upload

when done, find the direct link

then post it here
and put

around the link

like this

appears like:

Put several photos this way into a post if you like, or one at a time.

 

[malone]

Art: Years ago Joe Norwood taught and mentored early Ben Hogan. In his book, Golf-O-Metrics (1978), Norwood advocated addressing the ball with a closed stance, in a reverse "K" position with the left knee bent and propping/supporting weight set/stacked atop a pulled back & slightly up right hip. From there he taught what he described as a "cross-lateral" move from the top ball of the left toe. BBKIB sent me back to a re-read of Norwood.

 

[art]

Art: Years ago Joe Norwood taught and mentored early Ben Hogan. In his book, Golf-O-Metrics (1978), Norwood advocated addressing the ball with a closed stance, in a reverse "K" position with the left knee bent and propping/supporting weight set/stacked atop a pulled back & slightly up right hip. From there he taught what he described as a "cross-lateral" move from the top ball of the left toe. BBKIB sent me back to a re-read of Norwood.

Dear malone,

Thanks for the reference, it is very reinforcing that others have found by experience and trial and error what works and what does not.

The real gratification for me and hopefully to you and others that follow this informative site, is that the advancements in technology and science over the past few decades now allows us to better understand 'WHY' some things work better than others.

Finally, my passion and journey seeking 'golf truth' is to take the accumulation of past experiences and advancements in science and apply them uniquely to each golfer in search of their best and repeatable performance.

Posting here, I hope to attract others to study AND TEST in much more depth than I am able, what IMO are the significant advantages of better lower body dynamic balance and stability.

Thanks for you help in this regard,
art

 

[Keefer]

Art: Years ago Joe Norwood taught and mentored early Ben Hogan. In his book, Golf-O-Metrics (1978), Norwood advocated addressing the ball with a closed stance, in a reverse "K" position with the left knee bent and propping/supporting weight set/stacked atop a pulled back & slightly up right hip. From there he taught what he described as a "cross-lateral" move from the top ball of the left toe. BBKIB sent me back to a re-read of Norwood.

I've read where in the 1970's Paul Segerlund proposed a pre-cocking of the right hip backwards to help get a more in to out swing to help fix a slice.

I'm curious about the "keep it back" portion. To consciously try to keep the right hip from unwinding too soon seems like it would be the difficult part.

 

[drewyallop]

I've read where in the 1970's Paul Segerlund proposed a pre-cocking of the right hip backwards to help get a more in to out swing to help fix a slice.

I'm curious about the "keep it back" portion. To consciously try to keep the right hip from unwinding too soon seems like it would be the difficult part.

I agree Keefer about the "keep it back" portion. I have trouble reconciling this with the findings here that peak acceleration happens very early in movement of the pelvis

Drew

 

[golfie]

Right hip

The right hip does not have to move in order for the hips to have rotational velocity. Of course in a real swing it will move some but the intention of keeping it from moving towards the target line early would be benficial for some (many?) golfers.