Mike Thomas (sunmart)
New member
If you are trying to get to pitch elbow position at impact, what are the best keys to get there?
swing keys for pitch elbow?
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Deadly_Scope
New
'Try' to maintain the right arm bend at the top all the way down into impact with the active use of the right 'bicep' muscle. Don't worry though because as soon as the pressure is released by pp4 (where the left arm meets the chest), the right arm will be forced to straighten. If you do this correctly I think it would be pretty much impossible to not have a pitch elbow position.
Note - For the golf machine followers - The usage of the word bicep instead of tricep is entirely intentional.
Note - For the golf machine followers - The usage of the word bicep instead of tricep is entirely intentional.
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Slicey McDuff
New
*disclaimer*
I haven't studied TGM or any golfing physiology texts, however I have studied some human anatomy, and MY understanding (please correct me if I'm missing something GOLF specific) is that muscles, and I mean ALL muscles only "work" in a contracting, or shortening motion.
This is something that has intruigued me often as I read various golf texts, because I believe Deadly_Scope is correct (I know Tongzilla is a well respected person around these parts and I mean no disrespect, just trying to understand so my golf may benefit)
I would say that the "Lat's" are used, Lat's being the big muscle under the arm, kinda like the bat wings in body builders
As well as the Pec's when we bring the arms across the body.
The Bicep bends the arm (It's a bend we are trying to maintain), the tricep straightens the arm, the shoulder muscle raises the arm (and rotates, there are 3 muscles in the shoulder) and the lat's lower the arm. This is very over simplified, but is for illustrative purposes only.
One thing I am very conscious of is that it often FEELS like we are using one muscle when in fact we are using another, and I appreciate that it may be simpler to teach to the feel rather than complicate a golf lesson with an anatomy lesson.
Please elaborate as I would really like to be able to nail this one.
I haven't studied TGM or any golfing physiology texts, however I have studied some human anatomy, and MY understanding (please correct me if I'm missing something GOLF specific) is that muscles, and I mean ALL muscles only "work" in a contracting, or shortening motion.
This is something that has intruigued me often as I read various golf texts, because I believe Deadly_Scope is correct (I know Tongzilla is a well respected person around these parts and I mean no disrespect, just trying to understand so my golf may benefit)
I would say that the "Lat's" are used, Lat's being the big muscle under the arm, kinda like the bat wings in body builders
As well as the Pec's when we bring the arms across the body.
The Bicep bends the arm (It's a bend we are trying to maintain), the tricep straightens the arm, the shoulder muscle raises the arm (and rotates, there are 3 muscles in the shoulder) and the lat's lower the arm. This is very over simplified, but is for illustrative purposes only.
One thing I am very conscious of is that it often FEELS like we are using one muscle when in fact we are using another, and I appreciate that it may be simpler to teach to the feel rather than complicate a golf lesson with an anatomy lesson.
Please elaborate as I would really like to be able to nail this one.
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Need to do the under handed javelin toss or under handed frisbee toss. Right forearm MUST be up! Lead with the elbow. At first you will probably think "I can't hit it from here", but you can! Quite nicely.
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
why r u trying to get there? do you hit it better?
tongzilla
New
Slicey, you are right. I don’t think we’re disagreeing, but just looking at things from a different angle. Muscles “shorten” when you use them. But you can also tense a muscle with moving your levers (isometric vs concentric). I just don’t feel my right arm angle changes a whole lot during the first half of my downswing. And even if I try to jam that right elbow to my right hip, I don’t think I’m really using my biceps (compared to doing supine pull ups or barbell curls for example).*disclaimer*
I haven't studied TGM or any golfing physiology texts, however I have studied some human anatomy, and MY understanding (please correct me if I'm missing something GOLF specific) is that muscles, and I mean ALL muscles only "work" in a contracting, or shortening motion.
This is something that has intruigued me often as I read various golf texts, because I believe Deadly_Scope is correct (I know Tongzilla is a well respected person around these parts and I mean no disrespect, just trying to understand so my golf may benefit)
I would say that the "Lat's" are used, Lat's being the big muscle under the arm, kinda like the bat wings in body builders
As well as the Pec's when we bring the arms across the body.
The Bicep bends the arm (It's a bend we are trying to maintain), the tricep straightens the arm, the shoulder muscle raises the arm (and rotates, there are 3 muscles in the shoulder) and the lat's lower the arm. This is very over simplified, but is for illustrative purposes only.
One thing I am very conscious of is that it often FEELS like we are using one muscle when in fact we are using another, and I appreciate that it may be simpler to teach to the feel rather than complicate a golf lesson with an anatomy lesson.
Please elaborate as I would really like to be able to nail this one.
Slicey McDuff
New
Hmmm...
I REALLY need to just get out on the range and do a few of these things like "jamming my elbow into my hip".
It seems so foreign to me, but I'm always finding golf to be a game of opposites, for example if you slice, your natural tendancy is to aim left, which in most cases seems to be the wrong thing to do.
anyway, I understand where you are coming from Tongzilla, and not wanting to hijack the thread I'll slink back under my rock for now and think about that.
Thanks for your response.
I REALLY need to just get out on the range and do a few of these things like "jamming my elbow into my hip".
It seems so foreign to me, but I'm always finding golf to be a game of opposites, for example if you slice, your natural tendancy is to aim left, which in most cases seems to be the wrong thing to do.
anyway, I understand where you are coming from Tongzilla, and not wanting to hijack the thread I'll slink back under my rock for now and think about that.
Thanks for your response.
tongzilla
New
Jim has raised a very important question. Alas, people learn from experience
Deadly_Scope
New
Just to clarify on my post earlier.
It has generally been my experience that things that force golfers to experiment and do things different from that of what they are accustomed to is always generally productive whether they wish to stick with it in its entirety, modify it or scrap it later.
This is not my 'pet' procedure but rather trying to give something to this end.
By using the two middle fingers on the right hand to pull against the wristcock of the left whilst engaging the right bicep, will pretty much mandate the pitch elbow condition at impact. It will also likely mandate the way the power package must be transported by the pivot at startdown because of the maintanance of the right arm bend.
I want the active use of the bicep muscle not because its the only or nessesarily the best way (although not a variation without validity) to achieve this but that it forces the golfer to educate the points mentioned above.
These things can equally be achieved with the tricep still being actively used per TGM against pp1 but basically still engaging the two middle fingers of the right hand against the left wristcock, but lends itself to errors if the golfer hasn't got these things down already because it doesn't force the golfer like it does when using the bicep.
It has generally been my experience that things that force golfers to experiment and do things different from that of what they are accustomed to is always generally productive whether they wish to stick with it in its entirety, modify it or scrap it later.
This is not my 'pet' procedure but rather trying to give something to this end.
By using the two middle fingers on the right hand to pull against the wristcock of the left whilst engaging the right bicep, will pretty much mandate the pitch elbow condition at impact. It will also likely mandate the way the power package must be transported by the pivot at startdown because of the maintanance of the right arm bend.
I want the active use of the bicep muscle not because its the only or nessesarily the best way (although not a variation without validity) to achieve this but that it forces the golfer to educate the points mentioned above.
These things can equally be achieved with the tricep still being actively used per TGM against pp1 but basically still engaging the two middle fingers of the right hand against the left wristcock, but lends itself to errors if the golfer hasn't got these things down already because it doesn't force the golfer like it does when using the bicep.
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A fifth pressure point?
Outstanding post of staggering genius... so you activate your right biceps at the top, the elbow is kept flexed and pressure is felt in the third and fourth fingers of the right hand...thereby minimizing throwaway and keeping the right elbow flexed deep into the DS...somewhat like a Bertholy drill but with your usual grip...
Had to try it in MBGA (My Backyard Golf Academy)... didn´t work at all except for max Acquired Motion...too much tension? Worthy of some more tinkering though...
Outstanding post of staggering genius... so you activate your right biceps at the top, the elbow is kept flexed and pressure is felt in the third and fourth fingers of the right hand...thereby minimizing throwaway and keeping the right elbow flexed deep into the DS...somewhat like a Bertholy drill but with your usual grip...
Had to try it in MBGA (My Backyard Golf Academy)... didn´t work at all except for max Acquired Motion...too much tension? Worthy of some more tinkering though...
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