Tempo

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rbaumgolf

rbaumgolf

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I was reviewing some old notes I took regarding swing tempo and one of the "visuals" mentioned was to imagine the shaft extending from your hands through the center of your chest. During the swing try to keep the butt of the club pointed to the center of your chest.

Is that still a valid concept? This teaching talked about swinging the "triangle" by using the shoulders.
 
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Turfspanker

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My goodness, Ed you better get back to writing code.
During the swing, the hands follow the plane up to at least waist high, On the downswing, the butt of the club(hands)should aim at the plane line or more specifically, the inside-quadrant of the ball. Or even more specifically, the impact fix location.
Not trying to pick on you Ed, but wow! Heading back to the TGM forum...this is too much. Bye.
 
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EdZ

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quote:Originally posted by Turfspanker

My goodness, Ed you better get back to writing code.
During the swing, the hands follow the plane up to at least waist high, On the downswing, the butt of the club(hands)should aim at the plane line or more specifically, the inside-quadrant of the ball. Or even more specifically, the impact fix location.
Not trying to pick on you Ed, but wow! Heading back to the TGM forum...this is too much. Bye.
Click to expand...

I'm not talking about the hands. Nor am I talking about the shaft plane. I'm talking about the plane of the 'point of rotation/mirror point'.

Go read the EdZ drills.

My goodness, you better support your points with valid arguments sir.
 
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EdZ

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OK Mr "spanker"

A little drill for you....

Stand up, arms at sides - left them both up level with the shoulders

turn back, through keeping the arms in the same plane

Now, with arms up as above, clap your hands in front of you

Do the same turn, back and through.

Regardless of either:

a) letting your forearms turn/roll (swinger)

or

b) keeping your thumbs 'up' and the back of your left hand/palm of right on plane

The point from the base of your neck, to the wrists stays on the same plane.

This is the same in the swing, with the added angle of tilt from the hips and upper arm/body angle change.

That point, the 'rotation point' (swingers) or 'mirror point' (hitters) does not change - it stays in the same plane relative to the 'hub' - the base of the neck/top of the spine.

The rest is illusion based on the nature of bending from the hips, and the angle change between the upper arm/torso.
 
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Turfspanker

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Ed,

That sucking sound I'm beginning to hear sounds like Natural Golf. I would rather not debate the merits or demerits. I have no desire to go there even from a philosophical standpoint. Please carry on...and have fun.

Good Luck,

Spanker
 
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ppt3

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rbaumgolf get as far away from this as you can. Get back to reality. Read 6-B-1-D. Read 7-3. Read 6-B-4-0.
Ed that dopey drill only holds true if you apply it the way you have not for an actual G.O.L.F. swing. In a real G.O.L.F. swing Ed the Plane floats with the hands, the right arm folds well read it for yourself it's in the book.
 
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EdZ

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Not even close to natural golf.... screw you for that insult

ppt3 - I'll teach against anyone - bring it on buddy. If you want to discredit anything I post, support your point with specific facts. I suspect you wouldn't bother trying to discredit me if you didn't know I was right.

I'm not talking about the 'direction' of butt of the club, but a point near/on it, yes. The direction the butt of the club points is the SHAFT plane, not the plane I am talking about.

Do EdZ drill #1, and #2 - understand 'mirror point' and 'rotation point' as defined by those drills, and THAT is the 'line' that stays on ITS plane during the swing. Two points in 3 dimensional space that STAY ON THEIR PLANE during the entire motion, and are defined by the 'tip of the triangle'

I'll post a link to the drills/detail when FGI is back up....
 
bcoak

bcoak

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EdZ, I am extremely tired of you on this site. Every time someone dares question a post of yours, you take it as a personal insult and then come up with hypothetical examples that you want the poster to respond too or change the original supposition. I am tired of references to other teachers and EdZ drills. If you are so good, go start your own site.
 
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EdZ

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Don't like my posts, don't read them.

Don't agree with my views, tell me why, and support your points, I'm here to learn from each other, just as everyone else is.

People insult me, or 'call me out', and I'm going to defend myself.

That includes you. Give me some examples, support what you just said.
 
bcoak

bcoak

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"That includes you. Give me some examples, support what you just said."

Go back and read this thread, it proves my point.
 
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ppt3

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Ed you are getting personal and illogical again. The original question was is there any benefit to that goofy old drill, real or imagined, with the butt end of the club sticking through your chest. It seems to me that it works both against Extensor Action and Power Accumulator #4 and doesn't come close to what I want to feel throughout my backswing to the top. It denies rather than promotes the steady effort to straighten the right arm. Instead take a golf club normally and work on a true extensor action takeaway so you can mechanically produce and through feel reproduce what you actually want to do when you play. See how good the book is Ed.
Now why would I want to prove you wrong Ed if I thought you were right. That's illogical. Brian made a statement on this thread and he was right and I didn't try to prove him wrong. You ever heard of the word paranoia Ed. I tried your drill Ed giving you the benefit of the doubt but as you described it it doesn't hold true. That is my experience, nothing personal, just don't see the validity of it in the same way I have never seen any validity in the shaft in the chest drill. Keep shootin' Ed and if you describe what you are thinking in a way that anybody on this board can understand or produce something with practical value I will gladly give you your due. Have a nice day.
 
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EdZ

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You guys are not understanding my point.

I am NOT talking about the shaft to chest drill. The two points don't stay the same distance apart, but DO stay on the same plane.

bcoak - as I said, I will defend myself, perhaps YOU should read this thread again. I post my thoughts on the original question in a friendly way, and I get "my goodness Ed, you should go back to writing code". Am somehow I am the bad guy? Dish it out, get it back. Engage in honest friendly discussion, and that's what you'll get back from me - be an ass, and I'll call you on it.

Read the two EdZ drills, you might learn something.

I have no disagreement with TGM, in fact, my two drills do a darn fine job of showing the key moves of hitting vs. swinging, of rotation, and of the flying wedges.

Read this:

http://www.freegolfinfo.com/forums/...ith_the_Force,_Riding_the_Rim/m_704328/tm.htm

If it still isn't clear, ask questions, I will gladly clarify anything you don't understand about my post.
 
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Turfspanker

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Ed,

I'm responsible for a product line inside a major high tech company, my code comment was tongue-in-cheek. I barely have time to read and post let alone play and practice. Not sure how you do it so well. Your drill and comments sound very much like they were coming from a single-axis, Natural Golf enthusiast. Glad to hear you haven't gone down that path. I don't have any problem with you, rather the material you present. Try and separate the two.

Would you agree that The Golfing Machine is a complete encyclopedia for swing mechanics?
Would you also agree that TGM covers every possible uncompensated stroke?

I guess I don't understand why you have this spin on swing mechanics using imagery and drills that potentially create swing compensations.
Now you are going to tell me to defend that statement. Well, Just go back through the threads and find responses from qualified TGM instructors to the material you have presented. You will find conflicting information and also agreement.
The beauty of TGM is that even portions of single-axis swings, NG swings, and wheel-rim swings are described there. The problem is that there are usually compensations in those methods and thats the rub. Plus, no single swing pattern fits everyone. In fact the opposite is true.
Spend hours, weeks, years studying The Golfing Machine and you won't have to try and shoe-horn other methods into it.
 
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ppt3

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Ed you are finally right about something, I don't understand your point but I did bite and read your little thesis. First off get spellcheck for heaven's sake. Secondly I honestly don't have time to go through the whole thing point by point. Maybe in the winter. Having said that let's take the first little bit. Following that little grip drill literally how in the heck could you ever get your first three Pressure Points in an aft, in-line, on plane supportive position. On stepping into the ball you have got things backwards if you truly want to step into it open at address, it would be club, right foot , left foot not the way you have it if you truly want to keep your sight line clear to the target as you assume your address position. As for that drill allowing your left hand to fall from the right shoulder, as Basil Fawlty used to say what is the bloody point, unless of course you want to promote hopeless over-acceleration and chasing which bad golfers all have in spades. And why all these drills? Get the book, get Ben's or Brian's tape and learn to chip it, pitch it, punch it or full swing it. Practical application, man, with a club in your hands. You'll soon learn to wait for it that way, but not by this Oprah Winfrey, Dr. Phil new age bunk like "give up control to gain control" horse****. That don't mean diddly to Joe Golfer.
 
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EdZ

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tell you what spanker and ppt3, you can do what you wish..... folks can decide for themselves how helpful my drills are by giving them a try. By your very statements, you would agree that nothing I include in those drills isn't in TGM. The most complete catalog of the swing, yes, to date anyway. If you took the time, you might see that my drills are helpful in getting the ideas of TGM across.

As for wheel rim - see this image:

http://www.pebblebeach.com/pbstore/...ge=1&mscssid=SGRA6RAJ7KUW9MQUHSPBQL41DS022GE9

the larger statue is a better one to view, didn't have time to search for the link at the moment.... the general idea, that the base of the spine (shirt label) and a point where your hands meet, near PP1, the 'tip of the triangle' are the 'spoke' of the wheel

And yes, as Brian says, back to tempo.... that spoke stays straight because everything turns at the same 'rate' - not the same speed, but the hands and chest stay in synch with each other - see mathew's swing for an excellent example of what Brian means by this

Between dynamic balance, and turning at the same rate, most folks would dramatically improve their games and consistency very quickly. The 'building' of speed..... smooooooooooth tempo
 
bts

bts

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Which can be accomplished only by swinging/hitting against "LAG", force and counterforce, fast or slow.
 
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