TGM - 10-2-B

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Mathew

Banned
Looking through page 226 and got some questions about the first item... the strong single action grip

Now its says that these conditions are established at impact fix. Now first question - isn't this just moving your hands forward into their impact conditions?

Next question - it is described as V/V/A - vertical vertical Aft meaning the condition of the wrists is vertical - neither rolled nor turned yet somehow they expect you to do this in conjunction with having the thumb and pp3 on the aft side or right side (east) ... I don't get it ?
 
rwh

rwh

New
quote:Originally posted by Mathew

Looking through page 226 and got some questions about the first item... the strong single action grip

Now its says that these conditions are established at impact fix. Now first question - isn't this just moving your hands forward into their impact conditions?

Next question - it is described as V/V/A - vertical vertical Aft meaning the condition of the wrists is vertical - neither rolled nor turned yet somehow they expect you to do this in conjunction with having the thumb and pp3 on the aft side or right side (east) ... I don't get it ?
Click to expand...
As to your first question -- yes.

As to your second question:

1) the "A" of "V/V/A" refers only to the location of the #3 pressure point. You can find that stated in 10-2-0 in the first sentence of paragraph 2 (page 136, 6th edition).

(2) While the "Vertical" left thumb does rest more toward the aft of the shaft, it is not as "aft" as the #3PP. If the #3PP is at "3 o'clock", the left thumb is about "1:30". You don't have to turn your wrist to get the left thumb there; just take your left hand vertical grip and put your thumb at about "1:30". Look at photo 5-A-1 (page 62, 6th edition) and compare the location of the "Vertical" left thumb to the "Turned" left thumb as shown in 5-B-1.

Hope this helps you.
 
R

ryantiff

New
Just want to clarify, the strong single action grip will have a bend left wrist and straight right wrist? In 5-A-1, it does not show a bend left wrist, but somewhere I had read about the bend left and have been using it.
 
rwh

rwh

New
quote:Originally posted by ryantiff

Just want to clarify, the strong single action grip will have a bend left wrist and straight right wrist? In 5-A-1, it does not show a bend left wrist, but somewhere I had read about the bend left and have been using it.
Click to expand...

No. The left wrist is flat and the right wrist is bent at Impact. Those conditions may be reversed at Classic Address; however, at some point after the swing begins, the right wrist bends and the left wrist becomes flat and they stay that way at least until the ball is gone off the clubhead. If the left wrist were bent at impact, you would be violating one of the Three Basic Imperatives -- a Flat Left Wrist.
 
M

Mathew

Banned
Thanks for the confirmation on Impact fix....

Im still confused - how can I keep my index and thumb pressed together and still have the wrist vertical unless there is a gap and even then its difficult. Homer said that the left thumb and pp3 should be on the same line......and that side is aft or in other words on the right side of shaft in line of delivery.

So how can you do both at same time ?
 
E

EdZ

New
When using 10-2-B, do folks feel that the palms of both hands are facing each other very squarely (think of holding a 2x4, palms exactly face)?
 
A

Arizonian

New
I've recently switched to the 'strong single action' grip, and as Homer states (7-1) this is best. It was noticed by my instructor (denny) that I was losing pp#3 at the top (hands getting a lil loose), having the left thumb at 1:30 has helped my swing and feel in keeping pp#3 in tact. EdZ, my palms feel square.
 
H

holenone

Banned
quote:Originally posted by EdZ

When using 10-2-B, do folks feel that the palms of both hands are facing each other very squarely (think of holding a 2x4, palms exactly face)?
Click to expand...

This is an interesting question. When most people think "palms together" they assume a 'praying' position, i.e., palms together and both wrists bent. In this instance, the back of the Left Hand and the palm of the Right both face down the Target Line. But...

These alignments ignore the Inclined Plane of Motion and the Inside Out Angle of Approach. The correct 10-2-B is assumed with the Left Wrist Flat and only the Right Wrist Bent. With these Impact Alignments in place, the back of the Left Hand and the palm of the Right face down the Angle of Approach, well to the right of the Target.

So, there is a 'palms together' feel of the 'prayer' Grip and the 'palms together' Feel of the correct Golf Grip. If you feel:

1. Your Left Wrist and Right Palm facing to the right of the Target;

2. Your Right Palm pressing your Left Thumb in the same 'to the right' direction; and finally...

3. The all important Right Forefinger #3 Pressure Point also facing the same direction...

Then you are feeling a true 'palms together' Grip.
 
D

Doug

New
quote:Originally posted by holenone

quote:Originally posted by EdZ

When using 10-2-B, do folks feel that the palms of both hands are facing each other very squarely (think of holding a 2x4, palms exactly face)?
Click to expand...

This is an interesting question. When most people think "palms together" they assume a 'praying' position, i.e., palms together and both wrists bent. In this instance, the back of the Left Hand and the palm of the Right both face down the Target Line. But...

These alignments ignore the Inclined Plane of Motion and the Inside Out Angle of Approach. The correct 10-2-B is assumed with the Left Wrist Flat and only the Right Wrist Bent. With these Impact Alignments in place, the back of the Left Hand and the palm of the Right face down the Angle of Approach, well to the right of the Target.

So, there is a 'palms together' feel of the 'prayer' Grip and the 'palms together' Feel of the correct Golf Grip. If you feel:

1. Your Left Wrist and Right Palm facing to the right of the Target;

2. Your Right Palm pressing your Left Thumb in the same 'to the right' direction; and finally...

3. The all important Right Forefinger #3 Pressure Point also facing the same direction...

Then you are feeling a true 'palms together' Grip.
Click to expand...

Holenone

My vote for Post of the year[8D]

A simple yet perfect description of a proper grip.

All else is a waste of time without it.......
 
E

EdZ

New
Yep, that's it exactly.... and I would consider that angle to the right to be, in feel at least, 45 degrees to the right, with the 'very square' feel of the hands. Which gives a very powerful feel of 'hands match the face' despite the angles (and due to the hands leading at fix).

And also shows the merit of the 'feel of gripping a ruler' that Toski/Love describe in "how to feel a real golf swing", that Knudson describes in "Natural Golf" and that De La Torre calls a 'balanced' grip

As always, very well said Holenone....
 
E

EdZ

New
Was it Trevino that taped his left thumb? I find that since making the change from 'no gap' to 'gap' between the thumb/index finger of the left hand, that my 'thumb print' is getting a hardy workout, perhaps I need more PP#1 pressure than I am used to?
 
H

holenone

Banned
quote:Originally posted by EdZ

Was it Trevino that taped his left thumb? I find that since making the change from 'no gap' to 'gap' between the thumb/index finger of the left hand, that my 'thumb print' is getting a hardy workout, perhaps I need more PP#1 pressure than I am used to?
Click to expand...

Trevino puts the tape just beneath the thumb's second joint (the one immediately beneath the thumbnail). Remember, Hitters with their Muscular Drive Out of the Clubhead emphasize Hand Motion (through the #1 Pressure Point -- where the heel of the Right Hand presses against the Left Hand thumb). Swingers with their Centrifugal Force Throw Out of the Clubhead emphasize Wrist Motion (through the #2 Pressure Point -- the last three fingers of the Left Hand). Study 4-D-0. My 'Hitting' practice gloves wear out at the thumb whereas my 'Swinging' practice gloves wear out at the heel pad of the Hand.

I would strongly suggest experimenting with the #1 Pressure Point. Hitters seeking to maintain the Bent Right Wrist through Impact should emphasize the #1 Pressure Point to sustain the active Drive of the Left Arm. This will minimize the tendency of the #3 Pressure Point to Flatten the Right Wrist while not interfering with its function of Acceleration Control. When this Feel has been mastered and the Flying Wedges can be maintained through Impact, experiment with a 50-50 balance between #1 and #3. Ultimately, one should be able to funnel the entire Right Arm Drive against the #3 (Number Three) Pressure Point without interfering with the Bent Right Wrist.

Such emphasis on the #1 Pressure Point would also have value for Swingers. At our recent Pine Needles 'Secrets' Workshop, Peggy Kirk Bell related the story of how Ben Hogan told her it was a 'must,' especially for those who tend to 'separate' the Hands at the Top.
 
E

efnef

New
quote:Originally posted by holenone

quote:Originally posted by EdZ

Was it Trevino that taped his left thumb? I find that since making the change from 'no gap' to 'gap' between the thumb/index finger of the left hand, that my 'thumb print' is getting a hardy workout, perhaps I need more PP#1 pressure than I am used to?
Click to expand...

Trevino puts the tape just beneath the thumb's second joint (the one immediately beneath the thumbnail). Remember, Hitters with their Muscular Drive Out of the Clubhead emphasize Hand Motion (through the #1 Pressure Point -- where the heel of the Right Hand presses against the Left Hand thumb). Swingers with their Centrifugal Force Throw Out of the Clubhead emphasize Wrist Motion (through the #2 Pressure Point -- the last three fingers of the Left Hand). Study 4-D-0. My 'Hitting' practice gloves wear out at the thumb whereas my 'Swinging' practice gloves wear out at the heel pad of the Hand.

I would strongly suggest experimenting with the #1 Pressure Point. Hitters seeking to maintain the Bent Right Wrist through Impact should emphasize the #1 Pressure Point to sustain the active Drive of the Left Arm. This will minimize the tendency of the #3 Pressure Point to Flatten the Right Wrist while not interfering with its function of Acceleration Control. When this Feel has been mastered and the Flying Wedges can be maintained through Impact, experiment with a 50-50 balance between #1 and #3. Ultimately, one should be able to funnel the entire Right Arm Drive against the #3 (Number Three) Pressure Point without interfering with the Bent Right Wrist.

Such emphasis on the #1 Pressure Point would also have value for Swingers. At our recent Pine Needles 'Secrets' Workshop, Peggy Kirk Bell related the story of how Ben Hogan told her it was a 'must,' especially for those who tend to 'separate' the Hands at the Top.
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for editing your post. It really helps for us non-TGM jargon speakers. This really clarifies, and in my own case, serves as a reminder to maintain right hand heel pressure on the left thumb. This, hopefully, will cure a problem I've been having lately directly related to my hands separating at the top. :)
 
A

armourall

New
quote:Originally posted by lagster

Do the left wrist and right palm face to the right of the target at FIX only? What about from CLASSIC ADDRESS?
Click to expand...
Free bump for Lagster on this question. Anyone have the answer?
 
E

EdZ

New
Classic address feels 'stronger' to me - almost Azinger like. I wouldn't think the angle to the right would change, but certainly the 'feel' of that angle might.

Another question about trevino and the tape on his hands - I've been experimenting a bit with grip changes - in moving back to 10-2-B it is very clear the 'thumb pad' gets a workout when I use that grip - so Trevino tapes 'just under' the nail of the thumb? thus preventing the top joint from moving, or is it the 'middle' of the thumb and the joint can still bend?

Also, I have found recently that I quickly developed a callous on the left side of my middle finger of my left hand, at the side near the nail. This is likley from some experimentation I was doing, but has anyone else had this? It developed, cracked and bled fairly fast and is a real pain to say the least.
 
R

rundmc

Banned
quote:Originally posted by holenone

quote:Originally posted by EdZ

When using 10-2-B, do folks feel that the palms of both hands are facing each other very squarely (think of holding a 2x4, palms exactly face)?
Click to expand...

This is an interesting question. When most people think "palms together" they assume a 'praying' position, i.e., palms together and both wrists bent. In this instance, the back of the Left Hand and the palm of the Right both face down the Target Line. But...

These alignments ignore the Inclined Plane of Motion and the Inside Out Angle of Approach. The correct 10-2-B is assumed with the Left Wrist Flat and only the Right Wrist Bent. With these Impact Alignments in place, the back of the Left Hand and the palm of the Right face down the Angle of Approach, well to the right of the Target.

So, there is a 'palms together' feel of the 'prayer' Grip and the 'palms together' Feel of the correct Golf Grip. If you feel:

1. Your Left Wrist and Right Palm facing to the right of the Target;

2. Your Right Palm pressing your Left Thumb in the same 'to the right' direction; and finally...

3. The all important Right Forefinger #3 Pressure Point also facing the same direction...

Then you are feeling a true 'palms together' Grip.
Click to expand...

Yoda,

Great Post! ECox was showing me how to move my right hand grip more into the "cup" of my hand in contrast to more in the fingers. This was amazing in setting the clubshaft in plane with the right forearm creating the rt forearm flying wedge. With my old right hand position in the fingers, there was no chance for the shaft and the forearm to be in the same plane.

I understand how to assume the grip at fix, but my question in establishing my "new & improved" grip is . . .

How much thumb should you cover with PP1? Trevino puts tape on the first knuckle so just the first knuckle? When I slide the the left thumb into the cup of the right hand, it seems like my grip wants to move more into the fingers vs. the cup. This grip is different feeling, kind of like my hands are more separated.

Also, I read another post that you should not place too much of the left heel pad on the grip. Could you speak to the reasoning behind this?

Thanks a ton!!

Richard
 
H

holenone

Banned
quote:Originally posted by EdZ
Another question about trevino and the tape on his hands - I've been experimenting a bit with grip changes - in moving back to 10-2-B it is very clear the 'thumb pad' gets a workout when I use that grip - so Trevino tapes 'just under' the nail of the thumb? thus preventing the top joint from moving, or is it the 'middle' of the thumb and the joint can still bend?
Click to expand...

Trevino tapes between the first and last joints of the Thumb. In other words, he tapes the phalanx just under the last joint, well away from the nail. This is exactly the point against which the heel of the Right Hand drives. It is the #1 Pressure Point through which the Straightening Right Elbow applies its considerable Power.

P.S. I know that the true 'first joint' of the thumb lies hidden well into the Hand, just above the Wrist. But we're talkin' layman's terms, okay? :)
 
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