That was just plain wrong.......

Status
Not open for further replies.

EdZ

New
I am disgusted by the way Goosen was treated by the galleries. Not only embarassing and beyond rude, but further displays the worst of this country. What example does that show to everyone else on this shared planet of ours?

Congratulations Goosen, outstanding play, and a great victory that is well deserved.
 
Missed it I guess. I did notice that they did the Gooooooose, which sounded like Boooooo or something but later it sounded Oooooooose.

I didn't see anything after the 18th hole so maybe it was then.

Congrats, heck uv a putting demo...
 
Originally I thought they were booing too which is just really disgusting in my opinion. But then I found out they were saying Gooooose which sounded like a Booo. Still yesterday sounded more like a NFL match rather than a golf tournament.
Great final round by Goosen though, 11 single putts that is just awesome!
Alex
 

EdZ

New
And the guy yelling 'Noonan' during his key putts?

I hope he was banned from any further usga/pga events.... I would love to hear from someone who was there, seemed clear to me that they didn't want Goosen to win, and they were vocal about it. Not the crowd reaction he deserved from what I saw/heard on the broadcast.
 

rwh

New
quote:Originally posted by EdZ

I am disgusted by the way Goosen was treated by the galleries. Not only embarassing and beyond rude, but further displays the worst of this country. What example does that show to everyone else on this shared planet of ours?

Congratulations Goosen, outstanding play, and a great victory that is well deserved.

Ed,

Someone yelling out in the middle of a putt is the "worst" of this country? Please. The idiot could've could've been a South African, for all you know. The New Yorkers' love affair with Phil the Thrill started at least two years ago at Bethpage, where they openly rooted for him against Tiger; so, this isn't exactly a news flash that New Yorkers are rather aggressive in their support of Phil. Yelling "Gooooose" is a tribute, not derision. From what I saw on TV, 99.99 % of the gallery was courteous to Goosen. I was in Tulsa when he won the Open at Southern Hills in 2001, and the gallery was extremely polite to him.

Are there news stories out about how horribly Retief Goosen was treated?
 

EdZ

New
Rather not get into politics, suffice to say, this image, presented to the rest of the world, was not one I agree with - one person, or many. You seem to forget that this was a world wide broadcast. The way I saw it, Goosen was being booed..... as I said, I'd love to hear from someone that was there to know if that was true or not. It sure wasn't clear to me that the gallery was supporting him, and even the abc folks made a comment about his lack of support.

Was anyone there from the board?
 
quote:Originally posted by EdZ

Rather not get into politics, suffice to say, this image, presented to the rest of the world, was not one I agree with - one person, or many. You seem to forget that this was a world wide broadcast. The way I saw it, Goosen was being booed..... as I said, I'd love to hear from someone that was there to know if that was true or not. It sure wasn't clear to me that the gallery was supporting him, and even the abc folks made a comment about his lack of support.

Was anyone there from the board?

abc? wrong channel you were watching. try nbc.
 

dss

New
Commentators mentioned the crowd yelling "G-o-o-o-s-e", not booing. Who SHOULD have been booed was the USGA, for once again proving they are real AMATEURS when it comes to setting up courses for competitions.
 
I think they were saying "Goooose", just like baseball fans used to say "Louuuuuuu" when Lou Pinella came up to bat. :)
 

redan

New
quote:Originally posted by dss

Who SHOULD have been booed was the USGA, for once again proving they are real AMATEURS when it comes to setting up courses for competitions.

The USGA are hardly amateurs. Their working mantra is: Par should be hard to make, bogie should be easy. AND "The purpose of the Open Championship is to determine the best golfer in the world, not the best Jeff Maggart in the world."

Read John Feinstein's book OPEN to get a little appreciation for what it takes to run an open championship.

Remember, most of these courses are 72 pars that are playing at 70 par. Subtract 8 strokes from the scores, and you have an idea of what the scores would be if it was a "normal" set up.

If every hole on the course looks like the worst nightmare hole you have ever played, then they are close to what they want. It is exciting to see a guy win at -25. It is more thrilling to see Par or thereabouts win a championship.
 
quote:Originally posted by redan

quote:Originally posted by dss

Who SHOULD have been booed was the USGA, for once again proving they are real AMATEURS when it comes to setting up courses for competitions.

The USGA are hardly amateurs. Their working mantra is: Par should be hard to make, bogie should be easy. AND "The purpose of the Open Championship is to determine the best golfer in the world, not the best Jeff Maggart in the world."

Read John Feinstein's book OPEN to get a little appreciation for what it takes to run an open championship.

Remember, most of these courses are 72 pars that are playing at 70 par. Subtract 8 strokes from the scores, and you have an idea of what the scores would be if it was a "normal" set up.

If every hole on the course looks like the worst nightmare hole you have ever played, then they are close to what they want. It is exciting to see a guy win at -25. It is more thrilling to see Par or thereabouts win a championship.

Par is the score expected to be shot by any golfer. Its par- the avg score. The greats should play under par. I'm all for tough courses but the USGA decides to trick the greens and then tries to put a spin on their mistakes. Hole placement on a slope, putting a clock on Payne Stewart, the last golfer on the course, every year it is something. The British never care about the score.
 

redan

New
Par is the score expected to be shot by any golfer.

Par is not the score expected to be shot by any golfer. If any golfer could make par all the time, Brian Manzella would own a gas station in NO (well, he's a bright fella, maybe more than one station!). In fact, for most golfers, bogie is not an easy score to make.

The Open is not a members' tournament or even a PGA "Event". It is the National Championship.

I am not averse to criticizing the USGA-- I feel they have a lot to answer for, on a lot of issues. But I admire the way they run the various championships.
 
Meeks has much to be accountable for. He makes too many mistakes setting the course. All it lacks is the clown mouth and a wind mill. Be tough but not unfair. Olympic, Southern Hills, and Shinnacock Hills had serious green issues. Bethpage had an unfair 250+ yd carry into a driving rain and wind off a tee where short falls into knee high grass. Take a lesson from the Brits, set a very tough but fair course, let the elements either play into it or not.
or let John Cleese set the course !

 

dss

New
Sorry, Redan, but I must disagree. I have played in far too many USGA sponsored events over the years to agree with you. Their INTENT is to set up a course to identify the best players, but too often they lose control of the situation. Please don't forget- they are playing these championships on some of the best golf courses in the world- these courses are already difficult without the USGA's handprint. The players today are bigger, stronger, etc. and playing with better equipment than the greats of yesteryear, yet the scores at the US Open are virtually the same as they were 50 years ago. I think you will see how scores in the other majors have come down, gradually, over the same time period, but not in the US Open.
The first 6 players who went through hole #7 on Sunday went double, triple x 5! THEN, the navy blazers get together and realize they have a problem. That green, like so many others all over this country, was built before there was such a thing as a Stimpmeter. The ball is supposed to stay on the green when struck properly, not roll off to God knows where.
Just once I would like to see them just set the course up the way the members play it- it's already one of the best in the country, right? Let's see what these guys can do, without so much of the luck factor being introduced. I think the R&A, and the PGA do a MUCH better job of course set-up for their championships. As far as Augusta, well, it's an invitational run by the members themselves, so I guess they can do any thing they darn well please.
 
Just playing devil's advocate but .. the reason Pine Valley shys away from serious tournament play is too avoid seeing their beloved "#1 course in the world" beating to a pulp by the PGA. Myths die easy when they post 10 under after the first round.
 

Brian Manzella

Administrator
I have stayed away from this but can't any more....

ROUGH is a joke on ANY GOLF COURSE.

Hard and fast is fine...the ball is ROUND it is supposed to roll.

There are PLENTY holes that are very fair that HARD AND FAST would be tough beyond belief.

US OPENs should be hard as heck.

But ROUGH is a joke.

NO rough at this Open and the rest the same and no more than 5 shots better would have won.
 
This is incorrect..

quote:par is the score expected to be shot by any golfer. Its par- the avg score

This if from the USGA definitions, PAR...

"Par is the score that an expert golfer would be expected to make for a given hole. Par means errorless play under ordinary weather conditions, allowing two strokes on the putting green."

That is one factor that drives the USGA in setting up a golf course..
 
I, personally, like seeing the best players in the world struggling to make par for a change. These guys are all experts -- I like seeing them challenged.

All of the field played the same course, so everyone who said it the open was unfair is wrong. Really, it doesn't matter how close the final score related to par because the final order of finish of the players is not determined by their score as it relates to par but how it relates to the the scores of other golfers playing the same course.

And two guys finished under par for the tournament, so it couldn't have been that unfair.

Who says when you hit a ball on the green it's supposed to stop? Where is that written? If you take the guys who invented the game and brought them to PGA West (given that you had some sort of time travel device), do you think that's what they intended golf to be? When I see tournaments where -20 loses by two shots, that's when I think something's wrong. What's the point of par if it's going to be obliterated like that?

I think that the point here is not that the golf course was challenging, but the manner in which it challenged the players. I don't think it was goofy. How can you challenge these guys? 9,000 yard couses? That's goofy.

The fact is that the course was indeed "playable." The evidence is that two guys shot under par. This, of course, is my humble opinion and I respect those who disagree, I just don't think they're view on this is correct. :)

Also, I think I remember reading somewhere that par used to change based on weather conditions. For example, if it was windy or raining a little, par would go up. Is this true, or am I on the crack again?
 

dss

New
All of the field DID NOT play the same course (ask Chris DeMarco). It is not written anywhere that a ball hit on the green is supposed to stop. Forgive me, but I made the assumption that all of you would understand that when the best players in the WORLD hit QUALITY shots into a green, the skill level exhibited is such that the golf ball will stop. The USGA does many worthwhile things- writing the rules, interpreting the rules, testing equipment, agronomy issues, etc. Conducting championships is not one of the things they do well. The best of intentions- they just need some help from time to time (don't we all?) The players are so good now, the only way the Blazers can keep them near par is to make the greens concrete with little or no grass on or around them. It is a tribute to Goosen and Mickelson that they were under par, not an indication of fairness or rightness of the set up or course conditions.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top