The EASIEST (and most universal) to implement GOLF SWING concepts...and the HARDEST!

[Brian Manzella]

Vote for three each.

My votes:

EASIEST/works the best on the most golfers>

1. Mid-Body Hands
2. Left heel pad on top grip
3. Flat left Wrist at the top

HARDEST/messes up the most golfers>

1. Sequenced release
2. Dead Still Head in the middle of the feet
3. Bent left wrist at the top (getting it to work, most golfers do it already)

 

[tongzilla]

Vote for three each.

My votes:

EASIEST/works the best on the most golfers>

1. Mid-Body Hands
2. Left heel pad on top grip
3. Flat left Wrist at the top

HARDEST/messes up the most golfers>

1. Sequenced release
2. Dead Still Head in the middle of the feet
3. Bent left wrist at the top (getting it to work, most golfers do it already)

Mid-Body Hands...cool.
Left heel pad on top grip...obviously! How else do you want it!
Flat left Wrist at the top...sounds good.

But what's wrong with a Sequenced Release? You teach Simulatneous Release with Swinging? Do you do that as a learning tool, or is that your 'standard pattern'?

 

[vandal]

I was a mess until I went to mid-body hands. My grip is fine, I think. Could probably use a tweak here and there. I don't worry too much about a flat-left wrist at the top -- anymore.

1. Sequenced release
2. Dead Still Head in the middle of the feet
3. Bent left wrist at the top (getting it to work, most golfers do it already)

If I think about these, I get messed up. But if things go wrong, I focus on a balanced, centered address. Focusing on a dead-still head can cause me problems, so I just focus on staying centered around my spine. That, I feel, makes me more balanced.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Mid-Body Hands...cool.
Left heel pad on top grip...obviously! How else do you want it!
Flat left Wrist at the top...sounds good.

But what's wrong with a Sequenced Release? You teach Simulatneous Release with Swinging? Do you do that as a learning tool, or is that your 'standard pattern'?

Nothing wrong with it Leo, as it obviously happens in a swinger's motion.

It WILL cause many to invoke a "hand throw" however, and should be use with GREAT CAUTION as a concept.

 

[birdie_man]

I would say it's more Throwaway prone for beginners...

i.e. moving too much towards "Bent left wrist"...

....

....

Simul. Release (i.e. Single LWrist Action....i.e. no Startup/Release Swivel.....and....Angled Hinge) = pick that clubface up and drive the sucker into the ground with some tilt......"no Turn/Roll feel."

It's less complex.....no Swivelling........and easier to trust.....have to trust the Swivels...helps to know how they work....trust em.

 

[tongzilla]

It's because novices have a hard time figuring out how to square the clubface with a sequenced release. They don't know how to trust CF. But you gotta learn how to do it if you want to hit the ball nice (if you're a swinger).

 

[tongzilla]

More stuff on list

Vote for three each.

My votes:

EASIEST/works the best on the most golfers>

1. Mid-Body Hands
2. Left heel pad on top grip
3. Flat left Wrist at the top

HARDEST/messes up the most golfers>

1. Sequenced release
2. Dead Still Head in the middle of the feet
3. Bent left wrist at the top (getting it to work, most golfers do it already)

Let me add to the EASY list:

• Random sweep release point
• Neutral grip
• Ball inside left heel but vary stance width for different clubs

And to the HARD list:

• Float loading
• X-factor: huge shoulder turn and tiny hip turn
• Snap release
• Teaching release action as a swivel action. Over-rolling the left wrist through impact.

 

[tonyCA]

It's because novices have a hard time figuring out how to square the clubface with a sequenced release. They don't know how to trust CF. But you gotta learn how to do it if you want to hit the ball nice (if you're a swinger).

It's very difficult to trust it (and you probably shouldn't) if you're not on the proper path coming down.

That's why, IMO, lasting results are much easier to come by when the player works on his/her swing faults in the order they first appear (as opposed to working on impact instead of getting to the root cause of the throw-away).

 

[DivotDelight]

I finally had my first lesson ever, and here is my very brief synopsis:

The Good:Getting hands to impact fix location, outside the left edge of my left foot, as I see it. Increased my consistency.
The Bad:Using the pivot to power the stroke. I add and add and add. I add so much I am multiplying. Plus I can't break through the wall in the sand.
The Ugly:Rotation. Oh boy. Perhaps next time.

 

[mandrin]

Concept of transition, crossroad to either success or failure

The transition between up and down swing, a tiny fleeting moment, but very very crucial.

Arms should have a little time to themselves, just to drop into the slot, before torso unwinds.

 

[tongzilla]

Disapointed

The transition between up and down swing, a tiny fleeting moment, but very very crucial.

Arms should have a little time to themselves, just to drop into the slot, before torso unwinds.

Oh mandrin, with all your equations and scientific studies you come up with "drop into the slot before torso unwinds". I was expecting great things

 

[Wolfman]

Dead still head in middle of stance

That concept almost made me quit the game last year.

Worst thing I ever did.

I don't think you can do it (and make a quality shot) if you are older, out of shape, and inflexible.

At least thats my excuse, and I'm stickinig to it!

 

[mandrin]

Don’t you worry, more to come.

Oh mandrin, with all your equations and scientific studies you come up with "drop into the slot before torso unwinds". I was expecting great things

tongzilla,

I had initially considered posting the same idea using non-linear bifurcation algorithms, with a bit of uncertainty principles thrown into the mix for good measure.

But then only empty drums make noise all the time and true greatness includes attention to the small but very important details.

I would rather teach a novice golfer, grip, stance, still head, bent and flat wrists, etc., than trying to teach him this crucial fleeting moment, of a bit of patience, at the top.

 

[Brian Manzella]

That concept almost made me quit the game last year.

Worst thing I ever did.

I don't think you can do it (and make a quality shot) if you are older, out of shape, and inflexible.

At least thats my excuse, and I'm stickinig to it!

It is the single worst thing you can think about if you can't break 80, I'll tell ya that.

 

[birdie_man]

It's because novices have a hard time figuring out how to square the clubface with a sequenced release. They don't know how to trust CF. But you gotta learn how to do it if you want to hit the ball nice (if you're a swinger).

Good point tongz....just revised my post to include that...then noticed you had er down already below me.....gOOten....ja.

 

[birdie_man]

non-linear bifurcation algorithms.....uncertainty principles

Ur crazy mandrin.

...

I just farted.

...

 

[Erik_K]

The transition between up and down swing, a tiny fleeting moment, but very very crucial.

Arms should have a little time to themselves, just to drop into the slot, before torso unwinds.

Mandrin is right on. If I am helping a newbie at golf, the hardest thing for me to fix is getting them to have a smooth transition on the downswing where there's no added 'force' that throws the club onto a steep plane and all sorts of compensations are needed to hit the ball.

 

[Tom Bartlett]

Mandrin is right on. If I am helping a newbie at golf, the hardest thing for me to fix is getting them to have a smooth transition on the downswing where there's no added 'force' that throws the club onto a steep plane and all sorts of compensations are needed to hit the ball.

But WHY do they 'throw' the club onto a steep plane?

 

[Wolfman]

It is the single worst thing you can think about if you can't break 80, I'll tell ya that.

And, when I stopped doing that and got some AI help, I did start to break 80 or 1 or 2 strokes above 80 for 3 solid months before the snow started to fly!

Now, if the monsoons would stop here, maybe I can find out if I'm able to apply those same priniciples again this summer.

 

[Erik_K]

why do they throw it

But WHY do they 'throw' the club onto a steep plane?

I'll give you my take, Tom. I think most people see the ball and instinctively want to HIT it instead of swinging through to the target. As a result they might get quick from the top where all of the stored energy is released early.

I had lessons from a pro in Alabama last summer and we were talking about coming OTT and he thinks that it is a somewhat 'mental' problem. To the golfer it feels strong to hurl the club down with the arms and shoulders, perhaps like swinging an axe. Again that is OK if you want to HIT the ball, but swinging through it feels very differently if you ask me. Thus, for some, at least at first, the golf swing might feel very unnatural because your brain has to learn to trust the physics...to give up control to gain control.

I know I heard Mike Finney refer to the hands as clamps. Their primary job is the hold on. If you trust the physics and let the club do the work, you'll hit the ball with minimum muscular effort and maximum efficiency in my opinion. When I watch Els and Couples hit balls, it looks they could play 54 holes without breaking a sweat. Their respective moves are so fluid and effortless.

Jim_0068 might get you to work with flashlights and plane lasers and maybe if you feel what an inside path feels like as opposed to an overly steep one, andthat could also make a big difference.

But, overall, I would think that fixing the face is perhaps the first step in curing the disease forever. It is in this area where golf instructors and students alike are weakest in understanding this idea. Get the student to hit the ball solidly with good compression. Then their brain (computer) will learn, pretty damn fast, that if you want to hit it straight and solidly, you'll have to combine the new-found solid compression you've been making with a flat left wrist with a less steep path, i.e. hitting the ball more from the inside.

In other words, it's possible to use a device like the inside approach and the path pro 'correctly' but still 'flip' the club under the foam pad.