The left thumb

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ThomGN

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On Chucks there's a thread concerning the strong single action grip (10-2-b).
What are the opions on here about having a gap between the left hand and the thumb (see 5-A-1), to get the thumb to a "3 o'clock" aft side of the grip position?

I might have had this part wrong until now.
 
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MizunoJoe

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This is THE reason TGM will never be accepted in it's entirety by the golfing establishment. Not one great modern era player separates his left thumb from the hand in a baseball like position. Not Nelson, Hogan, Palmer, Nicklaus or Woods. Hogan, Palmer, and Nicklaus, in particular, consider the grip to be the heart and soul of the golf swing and would never use or endorse such a grip. Hogan and Palmer had the left thumb snugged up to the hand, while Nicklaus had a very slight separation, but with the thumb on top of the shaft. And, I may be wrong, but to my knowledge, no current tour player uses such a grip.
 
rwh

rwh

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quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

This is THE reason TGM will never be accepted in it's entirety by the golfing establishment. Not one great modern era player separates his left thumb from the hand in a baseball like position. Not Nelson, Hogan, Palmer, Nicklaus or Woods. Hogan, Palmer, and Nicklaus, in particular, consider the grip to be the heart and soul of the golf swing and would never use or endorse such a grip. Hogan and Palmer had the left thumb snugged up to the hand, while Nicklaus had a very slight separation, but with the thumb on top of the shaft. And, I may be wrong, but to my knowledge, no current tour player uses such a grip.
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MJ,

Good observation. As far as what the book says, I can't find anything that specifically instructs as to the "3 o'clock" position. I'm thinking "Aft" is anything to the right of the centerline of the grip, as per Brian's Instructional Article on the Grip:

http://homepage.mac.com/brianmanzella/.Public/bmanzellasept03.pdf
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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Ya, that's what I've changed to...I used to point it pretty much straight down. Now it's justs little to the right...not 3 o'clock though.
 
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Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
when i try and put the thumb on the aft side of the shaft....my grip tends to move and become strong.

I use the manzella grip with my thumb SLIGHTLY to the right of centerline. This is the most comfortable for me.
 
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DDL

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TGM says the thumb is positioned aft of the shaft,on plane, not just directly behind the shaft. By waggling the club up and down plane, the on plane aft position feels more like one or two O'clock. The plane is inclined and three-dimensional, not vertical, and the wrists turn. IF the wrist remained vertical to the inclined plane, then the thumb directly behind the shaft would be the best position for support. But the DS motion is not forward, but down and out.
 
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ThomGN

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quote:When looking at the grip from above, draw a line down the top. If you are right handed, 90 degrees to the right would be the aft.
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This is Golfingrandys definition of aft. And even though english is only my second language, it sounds equal to "3 o'clock". And more than one of you posting here as well didn't comment on the defintion for being wrong.

Anyway I'm off to the range and I'll like to experiment with a stronger left thumb = a gap between the hand and the thumb. I can see this being useful for feeling the #1 pp directly on the shaft. With the thumb in the 1 o'clock position which I've used so far the #1 pp is less direct on the shaft.
 
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MizunoJoe

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But even with the left thumb only as far aft as 1 O'Clock, the V/V/A grip of 10-2-B only barely shows the 2nd knuckle, which makes it a very weak grip in the establishment sense of the word. So, there is a substantial gap, and feels very baseball like. You can see this in the photo of 10-2-B, even with the right hand on the club. It's essentially Nicklaus' grip with the thumb moved from the top to the 1 O'Clock position. This puts the edge of thumb against the grip, rather than the thumbprint against the grip, which is my biggest objection. It feels and looks very ungolflike to me.

I have moved from a neutral thumb-on-top grip to a conventional strong grip with the left thumb at about 1 O'Clock and snugged up to the hand. In addition to feeling more secure, this provides more left wrist cock, and makes Impact hinging easier.
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
My grip is SO FAR SUPERIOR to what is being described I can not BEGIN to explain.

I have my thumb to the right (as has been noted above) without all the 'gap-osis' and other crap.

People will look for any and all justification to use a strong grip, but it is less than ideal in a majority of cases in the real world.
 
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MizunoJoe

New
Brian,

Would you say that there are more grips similar to "Brian's superior grip" on tour than the conventional strong grip with both Vs pointing at the right shoulder?
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
edited:

David Toms always asked me about my not waering a glove.

He said that if HE didn'y wear one, his grip would get too strong.


Look at Tiger's new grip or Jophhnny Miller's or Hogan or Nicklaus.
;)
 
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MizunoJoe

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Brian,

I edited the post to better state what I meant. I was not implying(as it originally sounded) that you didn't have any influence on tour. I meant more grips LIKE your recommendation than the normal strong grip.
 
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6bee1dee

New
I think some have a misunderstanding of the left thumb position. Think of just the tip of the thumb, the part behind the nail, at the aft side, the 3 o'clock side. The rest of the thumb angles back to the hand. It is not having the entire left thumb running parallel along the shaft- just the tip. My grip is not strong, yet I have my left thumb of the aft side of the shaft. The shaft is not the size of a tree.
 
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MizunoJoe

New
With the thumbprint against the shaft and only just to the right of 12 O'Clock, AND snugged up to the hand, you can see 2.5 to 3 knuckles. That's what I mean by a strong grip. With the back of the hand in a "not strong" position(that is facing the target), and the thumb in the 3 O'Clock position, there must be a considerable gap between the hand and the thumb. AND the edge of the thumb will be in contact with the shaft rather than the thumbprint, unless your hand is anatomically much different than mine.
 
6

6bee1dee

New
quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

With the thumbprint against the shaft and only just to the right of 12 O'Clock, AND snugged up to the hand, you can see 2.5 to 3 knuckles. That's what I mean by a strong grip. With the back of the hand in a "not strong" position(that is facing the target), and the thumb in the 3 O'Clock position, there must be a considerable gap between the hand and the thumb. AND the edge of the thumb will be in contact with the shaft rather than the thumbprint, unless your hand is anatomically much different than mine.
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I might have larger hands and my thumb does bend at the first joint to a 90 degree angle. Do you use a long thumb or a short thumb?

I never had a Pavin weak grip nor an old Duval strong grip. I see 2 knuckles which I consider neutral for my hand.

I think is only important to have the thumbprint somewhere on the aft side of the shaft- it gives acc#1 a place to funnel some of that pressure to the back of the shaft in Hitting.
 
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MizunoJoe

New
I have the thumb "snugged up" to the hand, which gives a short thumb.

I agree that the thumbprint should be in contact with the shaft(rather than the inside edge of the thumb) and that the contact point should be to the right of high noon. But I think that 3 O'Clock is way too far.
 
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