The Maximum Participation Stroke Pattern

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Brian Manzella

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I played golf this week with a long-time student of mine, who is in college now and I haven't seen in a while.

He uses the Ben Doyle preferred "4-Barrel MPSP."

He uses a single forward ball position.

He hits it so much better than some of the so called "ideal" 3-barrel, single plane, pure swingers or hitters, that I have seen it is a joke.

Now maybe it is talent or maybe it isn't but it is a VIABLE way to play golf.

Also, I went "back-to-the-future" to my old 1994-1996 Pattern (that none of you have seen) and played great.

So....

Homer KNEW that there was more than 1 or 2 ways to "Do It Right."

and don't jump on a stroke pattern bandwagon until you have seen other viable patterns that SOME OF THE TIME can way out-perform some 'in vogue' ones.

;)
 
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Bigwill

New
Brian, is this pattern more like a swing with power package thrust, or a hit with pivot thrust? If it's more like a swing, should you feel p-package thrust through pressure point #1 or #3? And where in the swing should you begin to apply the additional thrust? Sorry about all the questions; just really curious this stroke pattern. Thanks.
 
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JohhnyThomas1

New
I've seen some controversy over what Ben teaches vs the TGM model, but i guess he made his own interpretation of what he thought was majorly successful and used it. I've seen many an amazing review of his tape and am glad to have it coming.
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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What is a 4-barrel swing?? 3-barrel swing? I suppose I should get the book one of these days if I wanna understand everythign u guys are saying...

If you tell me what players use the respective swings (4B vs. 3B) that would be helpful.
 
rwh

rwh

New
quote:Originally posted by birdie_man

What is a 4-barrel swing?? 3-barrel swing? I suppose I should get the book one of these days if I wanna understand everythign u guys are saying...

If you tell me what players use the respective swings (4B vs. 3B) that would be helpful.
Click to expand...

I can help you with your first question.

Per 10-4-0, "Stroke Types are classified according to the number of Power Accumulators used and are termed Single, Double, Triple or Four Barrel Strokes. Variations are classified according to possible combinations within each Type."

A "Triple Barrel" stroke uses 3 Accumlators and a "Four Barrel" uses 4 Accumlators.
 
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6bee1dee

New
In a full swing:
What may confuse is that all four accumulators are present in all swing patterns in one form or another. Accumulator One for example does bend and straighten in both three and four barrel strokes. What drives the machine may dictate the number of barrels it is assigned.
Power Accumulator Two uncocks the left wrist, number Three rolls and swivels the left arm- both are hand accumulators. The confusion comes with the arm Power Accumulators – both are used but only one can sit in the driver’s seat and power the stroke. One for Hit or Four for Swing.

Chips and short pitch shots can use less Accumulators. You can them zero out.
 
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wally888

New
quote:Originally posted by 6bee1dee

In a full swing:
What may confuse is that all four accumulators are present in all swing patterns in one form or another. Accumulator One for example does bend and straighten in both three and four barrel strokes. What drives the machine may dictate the number of barrels it is assigned.
Power Accumulator Two uncocks the left wrist, number Three rolls and swivels the left arm- both are hand accumulators. The confusion comes with the arm Power Accumulators – both are used but only one can sit in the driver’s seat and power the stroke. One for Hit or Four for Swing.


Chips and short pitch shots can use less Accumulators. You can them zero out.
Click to expand...

Perhaps a silly question!
If one instructed you to:
Maintain a flat left wrist and a bent right wrist (through impact), then swing your left arm/hand as fast as you can while trying to overtake it with the right hand/arm?
Reconstruct/substitute words if needed, probably needs! Just wondering.
 
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MizunoJoe

New
Some say that in the Swing, the left arm is INERT and is only moved by the right hand via the right shoulder driving downplane. In this case, what you describe can't happen.
 
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bantamben1

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i personally use bens pattern and i would describe it in simple terms as a motion that i take to the end, start with a swinging ropehandle technique till i get to the side and then add the right arm thrust, to me a four barrel technique is neither hitting only or swinging it is both so its just a four barrel procedure, which it looks like is what hogan does that swinging start down and that right arm thrust through impact
 
6

6bee1dee

New
quote:Originally posted by wally888

quote:Originally posted by 6bee1dee

In a full swing:
What may confuse is that all four accumulators are present in all swing patterns in one form or another. Accumulator One for example does bend and straighten in both three and four barrel strokes. What drives the machine may dictate the number of barrels it is assigned.
Power Accumulator Two uncocks the left wrist, number Three rolls and swivels the left arm- both are hand accumulators. The confusion comes with the arm Power Accumulators – both are used but only one can sit in the driver’s seat and power the stroke. One for Hit or Four for Swing.


Chips and short pitch shots can use less Accumulators. You can them zero out.
Click to expand...

Perhaps a silly question!
If one instructed you to:
Maintain a flat left wrist and a bent right wrist (through impact), then swing your left arm/hand as fast as you can while trying to overtake it with the right hand/arm?
Reconstruct/substitute words if needed, probably needs! Just wondering.
Click to expand...

I think the big misconception is that the opposite side is taken out of the swing when nothing is further then the truth. The right arm is always driving and straightening in either swing. The left arm is described to be noodle even in the swing stroke. Yet the power accumulators are on the both arms and two on the left hand. Something has to whack the ball. The idea that one or the other doesn’t supply power is wrong. It isn’t zeroed out it, more like controlled.
When I swing, I hit hard with my right side because my right shoulder is driving. What my right hand isn’t doing, where I have the control of it, is trying to muscle more oomph into the whirling clubhead. You cannot push an object faster once it is released by centrifugal force, only slow it down with a breaking action.
This is why I believe four barrel is a Hit classification. But… it really doesn’t matter because a four barrel can only be performed one way- call it a Swing, call it a Hit- but the right hand in a four barrel procedure, either from a “cross line hit” or a “rotary driven right arm swing whirl” dominates the impact. Four barrel may be the only effective “switter” swing stroke.
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

New
Didn't this thread used to have the Max. Participation Pattern from the 3rd Edition??

I was gonna print er out....

Was it in here or somewhere else? Can't find it.
 
Steve Khatib

Steve Khatib

Super Moderator
Sounds Great!

bantam I would love to see your pattern some day, it sounds like Ben's definition of grace : 'laaaaw'


bantamben1 said:
i personally use bens pattern and i would describe it in simple terms as a motion that i take to the end, start with a swinging ropehandle technique till i get to the side and then add the right arm thrust, to me a four barrel technique is neither hitting only or swinging it is both so its just a four barrel procedure, which it looks like is what hogan does that swinging start down and that right arm thrust through impact
Click to expand...
 
EdStraker

EdStraker

New
birdie_man said:
Didn't this thread used to have the Max. Participation Pattern from the 3rd Edition??

I was gonna print er out....

Was it in here or somewhere else? Can't find it.
Click to expand...


I don't have the third edition, but I think the pattern is this based on the one lesson I had with Ben Doyle:

1 A
2 B
3 B
4 D
5 E
6 A
7 C
8 A
9 A
10 D
11 D
12 A
13 A
14 A
15 A
16 A
17 A
18 A
19 C
20 E
21 C
22 C
23 D
24 E
 
T

Tom Bartlett

Administrator
rundmc said:
Why do you reckon Mr. Kelley pooh poohed the pattern?
Click to expand...

If I had to guess...The max participation pattern is too difficult for most people. He was trying to sell his book. If it was too difficult to do and too difficult to read then nobody would buy it.
Now if you say, "then why does Ben teach it?" as Ben says, he shoots for Hogan but will settle for Snead.
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

New
EdStraker said:
I don't have the third edition, but I think the pattern is this based on the one lesson I had with Ben Doyle:

1 A
2 B
3 B
4 D
5 E
6 A
7 C
8 A
9 A
10 D
11 D
12 A
13 A
14 A
15 A
16 A
17 A
18 A
19 C
20 E
21 C
22 C
23 D
24 E
Click to expand...

Cool thanks man. I'll have to pull out my book and check it out....I can prolly pretty much get er together if I think about it a bit.

There was a page on this site that had it scanned....Brian posted it.....can't find it....
 
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