The root of flat back swing - please comment

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oztrainee

oztrainee

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Could that be
  • Zero pivot
  • Turning the right arm too soon


If someone could have a look at the following before making the comment.


Left wrist cock and right wrist bend only happen ¡§at¡¨ and after the transition, providing I have a totally free hinge on my wrist.
The left wrist cock and right wrist bend is caused by the change of direction (Momentum and speed) as well as the bending of the right elbow (pressure), if that is the case. The upswing is purely a pivot action, and the arm elevation only take place (hand up and in) during the right elbow bend. But in real case the right elbow bend should take please before the change of direction isn¡¦t it?

At address the right palm should be facing downward #1 pp. If I am turning my right hand 4-c-2 too soon, my backswing should look flatter. Obviously the disconnection would contribute some problem to it too. the turned 4-c-2 is cause by the right elbow bend too.
 
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
over-rotation of the left arm along with an improper folding of the right arm. Also an outside takeaway can cause it too, however the first two are the main cause. I know because those are my tendencies and it what causes me to get flat.
 
oztrainee

oztrainee

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Jim,

So, what do you think of the first two point that I quoted? And are you still a flat swinger?

Now more question

  • Does Ben Hogan swing slightly flatter on the back swing then other player
  • Is he a one plane swinger?
 
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
quote:Originally posted by oztrainee

Jim,

So, what do you think of the first two point that I quoted? And are you still a flat swinger?

Now more question

  • Does Ben Hogan swing slightly flatter on the back swing then other player
  • Is he a one plane swinger?
Click to expand...

lol...i don't quite understand what you posted. Sounds like someone who speaks TGM. I'm a novice when it comes to the "language."

No, i'm not a flat swinger anymore. At least i try not to be but it still creeps in from time to time and basically the miss that comes with it is a low ball flight and a pull and/or push depending on how under the plane i am.

Yes, Hogan had a relatively flat turn from what i've seen. But he also had a PERFECTLY FLAT shoulder turn too which would make the arms turn flatter as well and make everything appear flatter. The main thing that allowed hogan to keep his arms that flat is that during transition his first move was letting his hands drop about 6-8" and that gets him back on plane. If you look in the swing sequence section on this site and search for Sergio's swing and play it in quicktime in slow motion. You'll see that he has this same move and the same amount of lag. (this was his old swing that was superior to his new swing imo).

As if he was a "one plane swinger," thats garbage. He has a big plane shift that is easily seen. You need to listen to Brian's podcast where he discusses hogan. It's his 2nd one.

Basically this whole thing about "two plane" and "one plane" thing by Jim Hardy is about SETUP and the swing that accompanies EACH SETUP.

FOR INSTANCE:

- If you bend over A LOT from the hips and push the club to where your hands are further from your shoulders than you should be. You're going to turn fairly steep and your arms are going to follow, NATURALLY. This gives the look of the arm across the chest and the flat backswing. However you then need to "steepen" the plane (with a small over the top move) to actually get "on plane" and the end result is a swing that hits more towards the back of the ball and one that goes LEFT after impact faster because of the small OTT move.

OR

- If you bend over LESS from the hips and keep the club more where it should be under the shoulders you'll backswing shoulder turn will be flatter and your arms will tend to go more vertical because you're naturally standing more upright.


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so you can see if you mis-matched these two you'd have HUGE HUGE ISSUES. You can't be super bent over and try to swing very "vertically" it wouldn't work and vice versa.
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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quote:Originally posted by jim_0068
The main thing that allowed hogan to keep his arms that flat is that during transition his first move was letting his hands drop about 6-8" and that gets him back on plane.
Click to expand...

So- on plane...on the elbow plane you mean?
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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Makes sense.

It forces you to be steeper (or on plane anyway) because you have to figure out how to hit a divot. You fix your plane w/o knowing it really.

I never took this drill seriously before...I mean, who wants to go through the torture of hitting balls with one hand. It's hard to do at first!

But not that hard once you get the hang of it. Took me about 5-10 minutes to get it going OK with pitches anyway. The thing I've learned about it is if you have faults they get exaggerated hugely. It forces you to fix them because you will just not get the ball off the ground (or hit it crisply) at all if you don't do it right.

Try this drill. For real. Get good at it. If you train the right hand you should be good to go. That's the trouble hand I'd say- with casting (leakage!), flipping, etc...w/e you wanna call it.
 
self-mastery

self-mastery

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I think hardy should have categorized the "two" swings differently. I think outside of hyper technical golf pros no one cares that 1 plane/ 2 plane is somewhat inaccurate.
 
A

anakin

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quote:Originally posted by brianman

You wanna FIX a flat backswing?

Make RIGHT ARM ONLY swings at the front edge of a divot.
Click to expand...
  • Sure understanding the meaning of RFT, are you talking about the Takeaway or the forward swing?
  • Divot will only appear after impact, so what is the relation to the backswing?
Give us a few more lines please Brian.....
 
A

anakin

New
quote:Originally posted by brianman

You wanna FIX a flat backswing?

Make RIGHT ARM ONLY swings at the front edge of a divot.
Click to expand...

Where is the edge of a divot? outside edge or inside edge, in front or behind?
 
A

anakin

New
Thanks Birdie Man

Your answer is to my question is sound and clear.
But now where could I find the divot, if I haven't make the shot yet? The front edge means the furthest side of the club face, or the toe of the club. If we are talking about in the front edge of a divot, do you mean that assuming you just hit a pitch shot and left a divot there, you starting position at address is at the front edge of the divot? Where the front edge is the furthest point of the club face.
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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I'm not sure EXACTLY what Brian means...I guess you could make right-arm only swings at the front edge of a divot w/o a ball there- just to engrain a bent right wrist at impact...and forward aiming point- this ensures crisp contact where you hit the ball THEN the turf with no leakage (lag loss).

Um...dunno if you've seen Brian's video "Confessions of..." before but prolly do something similar to his divot drill in the video- just with one hand. Address the club where that first divot started (or in the middle of it or w/e)...then just make sure you are hitting ahead of that.

So...sole the club at the back of the divot, hit into the front of the divot.

I think that's it.
 
oztrainee

oztrainee

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quote:Originally posted by birdie_man

I'm not sure EXACTLY what Brian means...I guess you could make right-arm only swings at the front edge of a divot w/o a ball there- just to engrain a bent right wrist at impact...and forward aiming point- this ensures crisp contact where you hit the ball THEN the turf with no leakage (lag loss).

Um...dunno if you've seen Brian's video "Confessions of..." before but prolly do something similar to his divot drill in the video- just with one hand. Address the club where that first divot started (or in the middle of it or w/e)...then just make sure you are hitting ahead of that.

So...sole the club at the back of the divot, hit into the front of the divot.

I think that's it.
Click to expand...

Thanks man,

If it is the divot drill, then I think I know what he is talking about ..
 
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