Things we now know for sure - by Brian Manzella

[Brian Manzella]

MARK THESE DOWN

(or read 'em and weep)


1. You can not look at downswing wrist cock angles and tell what FORCES the golfer is applying to the club.

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2. Some golfers will hit the ball further by un-cocking (applying force to the bottom lever—the club) earlier.

3. You HAVE NO CHANCE—none—telling the attack angle of a golf swing without a radar device like TrackMan.

4. You will NOT hit the ball with the most efficiency if you have too downward an angle.

5. Guys with super-lag will have too down an angle of attack more than 75% of the time.

6. The Coupling-Point theory is SIMPLY ABOUT THE PATH OF THE COUPLING-POINT, and the very best players have it moving up at impact.

7. There is a PERFECT spot in every golf swing to start un-cocking. And the only way to find it is by doing a LOT of math. You can't do it with video, you can't do with 3D, maybe one day that will change, but for now, it's in the math.

8. If you apply a force to the club in the direction the club is pointing early in the downswing, you will create all sorts of lag, almost no matter what else you do.

9. Optimally, all the force on the club is toward the golfer down by the ball, good luck doing that with handle-dragging.

10. Project 1.68's spawned Release threads and videos were primarily based on PRIVATE meetings with Dr. Nesbit.

 

[Brian Manzella]

More stuff....PGA TOUR Kinematic Data.....Median numbers....Right Wrist HALFWAY-DOWN—52° bent, IMPACT—17° bent, HALFWAY THROUGH—18° arched.

 

[mandrin]

1. You can not look at downswing wrist cock angles and tell what FORCES the golfer is applying to the club.

​

Brian,

An analysis I did a little while ago might give some idea of the subtle difficulties even when looking at simple robot golf swings.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Brian,

An analysis I did a little while ago might give some idea of the subtle difficulties even when looking at simple robot golf swings.

Nice work.

You do realize that there is NO PRO playing for money in the world who is either SWINGING or HITTING only?

I know you do.

 

[mandrin]

Nice work.

You do realize that there is NO PRO playing for money in the world who is either SWINGING or HITTING only?

I know you do.

Brian,

To make sure I didn't have the intention to dwell on this old paradigm of swinging vs hitting and being mutually exclusive or not.

The intention was to give an intuitive idea of the complexity inherent in a golf swing even when stripped down to that of a simple robot golf swing.

I hope it suggests that when we look at video of seemingly identical golf swings that the underlying 'invisible exertions' could indeed be very different.

 

[TeeAce]

More stuff....PGA TOUR Kinematic Data.....Median numbers....Right Wrist HALFWAY-DOWN—52° bent, IMPACT—17° bent, HALFWAY THROUGH—18° arched.

Can you define half way down and half way through here? That's really interesting information. Also which way bended and arched are measured? Deviations or flexions, or combined?

 

[JTillery]

Very interesting. Median of a bunch of guys with same club? What club(s) being used to make this the median?or is this the median of a bunch of players' averages thru the bag?

 

[Lifter]

3. You HAVE NO CHANCE—none—telling the attack angle of a golf swing without a radar device like TrackMan.

4. You will NOT hit the ball with the most efficiency if you have too downward an angle.

What if you're using the kind of radar devices they use at Golfsmith stores? Do those provide a reliable measurement of angle of attack?

 

[mgranato]

What if you're using the kind of radar devices they use at Golfsmith stores? Do those provide a reliable measurement of angle of attack?

Negatory

 

[mjstrong]

Clarification

4. You will NOT hit the ball with the most efficiency if you have too downward an angle.

Can this point be elaborated on without giving away the milk (Project 1.68) for free?

Is "efficiency" a general term referring to swing consistencies, or does it refer to Smash Factor and energy transfer?

Too downward an angle would simply create too much Spin Loft, although the tradeoff would a tougher-to-tilt Spin Axis...

Great stuff BM, as always.

 

[Martee]

MARK THESE DOWN

(or read 'em and weep)



3. You HAVE NO CHANCE—none—telling the attack angle of a golf swing without a radar device like TrackMan.

7. There is a PERFECT spot in every golf swing to start un-cocking. And the only way to find it is by doing a LOT of math. You can't do it with video, you can't do with 3D, maybe one day that will change, but for now, it's in the math.

9. Optimally, all the force on the club is toward the golfer down by the ball, good luck doing that with handle-dragging.

Both 3 and 7 seems to say all previous golf instruction is with little merit and any previous sound golf stroke was just per chance. To me this is troublesome.

I don't understand the wording for the first part of 9, in particular " toward the golfer down by the ball". Not trying to be picky just trying to understand it.

 

[natep]

I dont really see it that way. Seems like he's just saying there's a best release point for each golfer, so trying to copy someone else's lag at 'so and so position' might be harmful.

 

[spktho]

Both 3 and 7 seems to say all previous golf instruction is with little merit and any previous sound golf stroke was just per chance. To me this is troublesome.

I don't understand the wording for the first part of 9, in particular " toward the golfer down by the ball". Not trying to be picky just trying to understand it.

For 3 and 7, you are correct in saying just by chance to a large degree, or the player "dug it out of the dirt" and made intuitive changes based on how their own perceived swing changes affected their ball flight and distance.

On 9, around--both before, during and after--the impact interval, force from the golfer is directed along the shaft--inward "toward the golfer";going normal-- and not against the shaft--down the target line.

 

[lia41985]

I'm trying to visualize some of these concepts. I think you can see the wider downswing hand path (the green line moves from out on the downswing back in, so-called parametric acceleration) and rotation around the coupling point here (notice how the face, red line, goes from "90 degrees to 90 degrees"): Click here

 

[willgolfer]

I don't understand the wording for the first part of 9, in particular " toward the golfer down by the ball". Not trying to be picky just trying to understand it.

Did you read the release thread? Watch the videos (free and pay)?

 

[Martee]

It is the wording that doesn't make sense 'toward the golfer down by the ball', obviously it is me everyone seems to understand. Maybe I should ask, down by the ball, was that to mean approaching impact? I can't how something is toward the golfer down by the ball, there at opposite location.

I do my best not to read into what may have been mean that is the reason for the question.

 

[Brian Manzella]

When I am talking "down by the ball" I am talking about when the clubhead gets lower than the hands pre-impact.

That's when the golfer starts to "pull up the grip."

What I always refer to as "going normal."

 

[bgoodyear]

"If you apply a force to the club in the direction the club is pointing early in the downswing, you will create all sorts of lag, almost no matter what else you do."

This one is key for me. I've found that it almost doesn't matter what I do on the way back. As long as I'm in some kind of reasonable position with a good turn I can release back in the direction the club is pointing and it generates massive clubhead speed.

I get into trouble when I start releasing on a different line.

 

[Martee]

When I am talking "down by the ball" I am talking about when the clubhead gets lower than the hands pre-impact.

That's when the golfer starts to "pull up the grip."

What I always refer to as "going normal."

Thank You..I appologize if I missed the term, but I am with you on where the pull up starts. Thanks again.