this might be of interest...also some questions

[Erik_K]

I am not sure if any of you have come across this site:

http://www.iseekgolf.com/

check out the instructional articles. There's a nice one on the flying wedges and his article of getting on plane.

I have a question about the swing plane. I understand what is meant by the shaft plane and turned shoulder plane. I am STILL battling an OTT move and one can probably equate that to 'being off-plane.' That is, if my path is too steep, I will be cutting across the ball and that bends the plane line. Is that right?

Now Jim gave me the flashlight drill to work on and the article on that site seems to highlight that topic. I can see how one can practice that in slow motion with mirrors and/or video but I have a hard time using that on the course. So I am guessing this is something you have to practice a ton to develop the proper feel.

So in TGM-terms, is it 'best' to swing up and down on the initial shaft plane? What is confusing me is that when my shoulders are fully turned I lose sense as to where the club is and when I start down, how do I know what plane I am on? Obviously since I am normally OTT (depends, some days I am hitting it good and the OTT isn't totally killing my swing) I know I bending that plane line. In my case, then, would it be best for me to think of swinging out to right field more, or even trying to hit the toe of the face?

thanks,
Erik

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Those are articles by Paul Smith GSEB...very nice guy and knows his equiptment.

I think you need to understand your problem before you fix it because it seems like the drills aren't working. The reason why you're coming OTT is because for you first move your shoulder is moving OUT instead of DOWN. You're messing up the order, you're going: OUT/DOWN/FOWARD...instead of DOWN/OUT/FOWARD

Also, how steep is your shoulder turn? If the shoulder turn isn't relatively correct the shoulder is too steep or high to come down enough to get on plane. You'd have to re-route it which is very difficult. How's your setup and backswing pivot? If those are off, it's hard to get the shoulder on plane as well.

The best thing you can do if to practice the DOWN first while hitting balls is:

- setup square to the ball and them move your trail foot like 2 feet behind your lead foot. This will drastically close your stance and its basically impossible to come OTT

- also, i would suggest start practicing with some kind of inside approach, you can clones off ebay for cheap. However you need to be careful to not "over fix" yourself and start coming so far from the inside you are "under the plane."

 

[birdie_man]

Yes good shiat Jim...right shoulder goes DOWNPLANE (turned SHOULDER plane)...not outward.

 

[Jimmy A.]

quote:Originally posted by jim_0068

Those are articles by Paul Smith GSEB...very nice guy and knows his equiptment.

I think you need to understand your problem before you fix it because it seems like the drills aren't working. The reason why you're coming OTT is because for you first move your shoulder is moving OUT instead of DOWN. You're messing up the order, you're going: OUT/DOWN/FOWARD...instead of DOWN/OUT/FOWARD

Also, how steep is your shoulder turn? If the shoulder turn isn't relatively correct the shoulder is too steep or high to come down enough to get on plane. You'd have to re-route it which is very difficult. How's your setup and backswing pivot? If those are off, it's hard to get the shoulder on plane as well.

The best thing you can do if to practice the DOWN first while hitting balls is:

- setup square to the ball and them move your trail foot like 2 feet behind your lead foot. This will drastically close your stance and its basically impossible to come OTT

- also, i would suggest start practicing with some kind of inside approach, you can clones off ebay for cheap. However you need to be careful to not "over fix" yourself and start coming so far from the inside you are "under the plane."

Does the "Inside Approach" (or its clones) work very well? I also struggle with an OTT move, and I've actually considered buying one, but I've never bought a training aid (my wife bought me a laser trainer for a Christmas gift a few years ago) because I feel like most of them are just gaffe products that sell only because so many of us golfers are desperate to improve our games. [8D] Lately I've been focusing on tracing the plane line and my aiming point (for the hands). It makes it pretty difficult to come over the top if you successfully trace the plane line and get your hands coming into the aiming point while still on-plane. However, it would be nice to have some visual tool so that I didn't have to rely so heavily on feel alone since what it feels like you're doing isn't always what you actually are doing.

 

[Erik_K]

I have a homemade inside approach and I use it on and off. I will go back to using it some each day, even without a ball because it still helps.

On video, Jim, the shoulder is certainly moving OUT and not DOWN enough. It's the incorrect sequence of events. As a result, I stand up and with short clubs I fight a pull to the left and with the longer club-slices are the problem-the classic duffer's move.

I have been trying to lead as much as possible with the hips to pull the shoulders down plane.

To answer your earlier question, Lynn Blake helped me with my setup. Over and over (after we fixed it) he said it looks fine. The backswing pivot needs cleaning up because my hips tend to slide some (not as much as I used to though).

thanks,
Erik

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

quote:Originally posted by Jimmy A.


Does the "Inside Approach" (or its clones) work very well? I also struggle with an OTT move, and I've actually considered buying one, but I've never bought a training aid (my wife bought me a laser trainer for a Christmas gift a few years ago) because I feel like most of them are just gaffe products that sell only because so many of us golfers are desperate to improve our games. [8D] Lately I've been focusing on tracing the plane line and my aiming point (for the hands). It makes it pretty difficult to come over the top if you successfully trace the plane line and get your hands coming into the aiming point while still on-plane. However, it would be nice to have some visual tool so that I didn't have to rely so heavily on feel alone since what it feels like you're doing isn't always what you actually are doing.

Yes...the inside approach works very well. Brian told me before he used it a lot to fix people but you can "over fix'em" as he said and get them coming from too far inside and get under the plane. But when used correctly, its a great training aid.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

quote:Originally posted by Erik_K



To answer your earlier question, Lynn Blake helped me with my setup. Over and over (after we fixed it) he said it looks fine. The backswing pivot needs cleaning up because my hips tend to slide some (not as much as I used to though).

thanks,
Erik

That could be part of your answer...when you hips SLIDE back your upper body goes FOWARD to balance you, thus getting you into a reverse pivot situation and its REALLY hard to recover from one of those. So you need to start focussing on a better backswing pivot.

Are you doing a right forearm pickup technique or a shoulder turn takeaway? Lastly, as a quick side note, i'll start to get OTT when my takeaway begins to get outside.

 

[cdog]

Check your footwork.

 

[Erik_K]

quote:Originally posted by jim_0068

quote:Originally posted by Erik_K



To answer your earlier question, Lynn Blake helped me with my setup. Over and over (after we fixed it) he said it looks fine. The backswing pivot needs cleaning up because my hips tend to slide some (not as much as I used to though).

thanks,
Erik

That could be part of your answer...when you hips SLIDE back your upper body goes FOWARD to balance you, thus getting you into a reverse pivot situation and its REALLY hard to recover from one of those. So you need to start focussing on a better backswing pivot.

Are you doing a right forearm pickup technique or a shoulder turn takeaway? Lastly, as a quick side note, i'll start to get OTT when my takeaway begins to get outside.

My takeaway is probably of the shoulder turn variety because I used to take it to the inside too much. I'd like to use RFP because that seems simpler.

I am working on a more stable pivot (more rotary motion) and that should kill the hip slide for good.

 

[bendet2]

jim, does the right shoulder go down towards the ball on the downswing at the same angle that the left shoulder did on the backswing?

 

[Erik_K]

LOL. I broke my homemade inside approach at the range yesterday. but before I broke it I was hitting the ball fairly straight with a slight fade (I want a draw however).

 

[birdie_man]

quote:Originally posted by bendet2

jim, does the right shoulder go down towards the ball on the downswing at the same angle that the left shoulder did on the backswing?

Your right shoulder goes up and down the turned shoulder plane man. That's all. Straight line.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

The left shoulder and right shoulder have relationships.....

As the right shoulder is doing down/out/foward...the left shoulder is moving up/in/backward