This SHOULD end the Driver down or up debate...

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Brian Manzella

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hankknumbers.jpg


The Hank Kuehne analysis (from Golf Digest amd the Taylor-Made MATT system):

He is HITTING DOWN (FORWARD LEAN OF SHAFT).

THE CLUBSHAFT IS FLEXING FORWARD AND THE HEAD IS MOVING UP.

Go home and play with your machine, Horton.

The Itallian Stallion rides again!!!!!!!
 
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Brian Manzella

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TGachines/Hortons response:

(i'll save him the time):

"Where does it say he is hitting down. Just because the shaft is leaning forward doesn't mean he can be hitting up."

My answer:
 
Erik_K

Erik_K

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i don't mean to argue the point here-but they say his path is 2.8 degrees upward. Assuming his clubhead loft is greater than 7.4 degrees, I see how the shaft is leaned forward slightly.
 
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TGManMachine

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Brianman, re your mp3 message. If you consider the debate over than I must accept that because this is your forum. Thank you and everybody else for your participation, and I shall conclude by saying that anecdotal experience does not trump solid scientific objective fact. The problem here is that fact is not fully recognized nor understood and subjective impressions seem to govern opinions. Good golfing to all.

p.s. brianman -- The reason why Keuhne has a 2.8* rising driver path is because the driver head is rotating upwards around a center that is located in the upper torso between the shoulders. The forward leaning shaft is also rotating around that central axis, and the shaft is rotating upwards</u> on a 2.8* rising arc. Really quite simple when you think about it.
 
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Vaako

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quote:Originally posted by TGManMachine

Brianman, re your mp3 message. If you consider the debate over than I must accept that because this is your forum. Thank you and everybody else for your participation, and I shall conclude by saying that anecdotal experience does not trump solid scientific objective fact. The problem here is that fact is not fully recognized nor understood and subjective impressions seem to govern opinions. Good golfing to all.
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Yep, summer is coming - time for everybody to stop being a keyboard golfer and get out.

Happy Golfing back at ya, no hard feelings I hope.


Vaako
 
Burner

Burner

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quote:Originally posted by Erik_K

i don't mean to argue the point here-but they say his path is 2.8 degrees upward. Assuming his clubhead loft is greater than 7.4 degrees, I see how the shaft is leaned forward slightly.
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Erik,

I find these numbers curious also, especially as the 7.4 degrees of clubhead loft at impact is negative to his static loft of 9 degrees(?).

He would have to "contort" a little to be hitting up with a delofted clubface, right.
 
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BigBadDonkey

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quote:Originally posted by TGManMachine

Brianman, re your mp3 message. If you consider the debate over than I must accept that because this is your forum. Thank you and everybody else for your participation, and I shall conclude by saying that anecdotal experience does not trump solid scientific objective fact. The problem here is that fact is not fully recognized nor understood and subjective impressions seem to govern opinions. Good golfing to all.
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Huh! What's that sound! .... I can hear Violins. :D
 
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EdZ

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Brian - re: what you said about shaft kick - some kick forward or 'up' and others 'drag'.

Am I correct in assuming the 'ideal' shaft for a given person would 'kick' EXACTLY to inline at separation, or is there advantage in the forward kicking shaft through separation?
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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quote:Originally posted by TGManMachine

Brianman, re your mp3 message. If you consider the debate over than I must accept that because this is your forum. Thank you and everybody else for your participation, and I shall conclude by saying that anecdotal experience does not trump solid scientific objective fact. The problem here is that fact is not fully recognized nor understood and subjective impressions seem to govern opinions. Good golfing to all.

p.s. brianman -- The reason why Keuhne has a 2.8* rising driver path is because the driver head is rotating upwards around a center that is located in the upper torso between the shoulders. The forward leaning shaft is also rotating around that central axis, and the shaft is rotating upwards</u> on a 2.8* rising arc. Really quite simple when you think about it.
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quote: TGMachine....you are on thin ice....

One more remark like that and you are gone forever.
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lol...buddy agrees to end the debate...then just has to get in the last word. That P.S. part was an edit too...just couldn't hold it back eh? Do you seriously believe in this that strongly or are you just spewing crap to agitate people?

I must admit TGManMachine, you are pretty good at stirring the pot. You do it without being vulgar or insulting though...more in an arrogant, self-pronounced genious, know-it-all scientist kind of way. You knew that though eh. Does remind me of Horton, actually.
 
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azgolfer

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If you have spine tilt (which hank has a lot of), you can hit down (away from your head and shoulders), but the path will be upward. This is independent of whether your hands are ahead (forward lean of the shaft).
 
Burner

Burner

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quote:Originally posted by azgolfer

If you have spine tilt (which hank has a lot of), you can hit down (away from your head and shoulders), but the path will be upward. This is independent of whether your hands are ahead (forward lean of the shaft).
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The clubhead is always travelling down until the shaft reaches a perpendicular alignment no matter what position the guy holding the club is getting himself into. Look at the pictures of Hank above.

Hank would have to have some serious axis tilt or his hands ridiculously in front of the clubhead, not to mention his ball ridiculously out in front of his leading leg, in order to be hitting the ball on the upswing with a delofted clubface.

That apart, post low point impact - on the upswing - will also involve an up and in clubhead travel arc. Pulls and hooks come to mind once this scenario is involved. The alternative would be to hold the clubface open to nullify those possibilities and then you are talking slice.

Doesn't make any sense to hit on the upswing, does it?
 
bcoak

bcoak

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OT: I love the pic of Kuehne in the Topflight ad of him just beyond impact. His right foot barely off the ground. ANyone ever see him in person? Is he bigger than Tiger? Looks like a free safety.
 
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azgolfer

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quote:Originally posted by Burner

quote:Originally posted by azgolfer

If you have spine tilt (which hank has a lot of), you can hit down (away from your head and shoulders), but the path will be upward. This is independent of whether your hands are ahead (forward lean of the shaft).
Click to expand...
The clubhead is always travelling down until the shaft reaches a perpendicular alignment no matter what position the guy holding the club is getting himself into. Look at the pictures of Hank above.

Hank would have to have some serious axis tilt or his hands ridiculously in front of the clubhead, not to mention his ball ridiculously out in front of his leading leg, in order to be hitting the ball on the upswing with a delofted clubface.

That apart, post low point impact - on the upswing - will also involve an up and in clubhead travel arc. Pulls and hooks come to mind once this scenario is involved. The alternative would be to hold the clubface open to nullify those possibilities and then you are talking slice.

Doesn't make any sense to hit on the upswing, does it?
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He does have serious axis tilt, and it's not post low point upswing, it's down relative to the golfer and up relative to the ground.
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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Brian, maybe some of the confusion is in the wording of "hitting down."

The Golf Digest article in this post does say that Hank hits the ball on a 2.8 degree upward path.
BUT hit face is at 7.4 degrees (delofted 2.1 degrees?) with a forward leaning shaft.

So...what is it...up or down? Perhaps the best thing to say would be that he is delofting the driver, or hits with his hands ahead of the ball instead of hitting up AND adding loft?? Just a thought.

Eh Brian?
What do you naysayers think?
 
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