Mike Thomas (sunmart)
New member
Please go talk to him before its too late.
Tiger, Butch is at Augusta.
- Thread starter Mike Thomas (sunmart)
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SteveT
Guest
So is Brian at the SI booth .... 
johnnymarlboro
New
Why? Does Butch have the ability to return Tiger to his physical prime, while simultaneously erasing a few years of his memory?
Mike Thomas (sunmart)
New member
Absolutely.
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
Butch isn't the solution and i think what Foley and him are working on is fine; the problem was/is Haney. People really don't realize how much he absolutely ruined him with his parallel plane bs. I didn't get to watch a lot of the masters but from what i did see in Tiger's 75 round with his bad shots was a haney-esque backswing while trying to do a foley type downswing and while possible it's really hard to do. While the result wasn't what he wanted i thought one of his "newer" type swings that was a solidly hit ball was i think the 6 iron he flew over the par 3.
Jared Willerson
Super Moderator
I agree with Jim. What we are seeing is the culmination of trying to overcome woefully inaccurate information.
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SteveT
Guest
I wonder what the consequences were of him developing a "new" body... pumping iron and injury "rehabilitation" with Dr. Galea... that plus his dubious state of mind and maturity??
Dariusz J.
New member
Both Haney and Foley were/are problems. Harmon wasn't so great as well, he just picked up enormous talent in due time. Woods needs to solve big picture issues, not concentrating on jibberish that Foley says.
Cheers
Cheers
Mike Thomas (sunmart)
New member
" What Foley and him are working on is fine". Tiger Woods playing this bad at Augusta is an historic sports event.
Dariusz J.
New member
Woods won something under Haney, he won nothing special under Foley (OK, inertia under Haney, ROFL). You wanted his fans to wait and wait and wait for weaks then months and now years and nothing spectacular has happened. It is time to open eyes.
D-plane knowledge is useful but it is nothing prevalent. Trackman is a tool but not a golden means. Foley even needed to hire a D-plane and Trackman expert to help him because he was not able to use these tools correctly. I will not even mention anatomy issues. And there are still guys who think he's a "world-class expert"...ROFL.
OTOH, Haney invented his congruent angle theory not worrying to look, not even ask, someone who knows anatomy about it. Watching Iron Byron and PingMan is not enough. Another "world-class expert". ROFL.
Pathetic.
Cheers
P.S. Use the science correctly !!!
D-plane knowledge is useful but it is nothing prevalent. Trackman is a tool but not a golden means. Foley even needed to hire a D-plane and Trackman expert to help him because he was not able to use these tools correctly. I will not even mention anatomy issues. And there are still guys who think he's a "world-class expert"...ROFL.
OTOH, Haney invented his congruent angle theory not worrying to look, not even ask, someone who knows anatomy about it. Watching Iron Byron and PingMan is not enough. Another "world-class expert". ROFL.
Pathetic.
Cheers
P.S. Use the science correctly !!!
natep
New
I'm kinda confused by this as well. If what Haney was teaching was so poisonous then why didnt it ruin him right from the jump? He played very well for years under Haney (31 wins and 6 majors in 6 years), and as someone pointed out to me on this forum his GIR was better under Haney than at any other point in his career.
lia41985
New member
And what is this bullshit about motor patterns from two years ago still causing him problems at this tournament? Why now? Why not at Bay Hill? It's convenient to make these kind of excuses but why? Jim's reference to mixing and matching the Hank backswing with the Foley downswing was verbatim what Tiger had said. What's the motivation behind regurgitating that? Why go to the tank for Tiger especially when it's clearer than ever the guy doesn't tell the truth during his interviews and that he's vindictive and petulant?
What was wrong with this swing?
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/GekrFqrsSPE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
I don't see him getting "under the sweetspot" or swinging out too far to the right, common refrains for the guys that are big-time Haney detractors. Okay, that's his "Haney swing" in slow motion. How about at regular speed?
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/YmLT22QJer8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Holy crap! That looks unbelievably well-balanced and rhythmic! Well, he's at the range, not a fair comparison. Plus Hank had him over rotating the left arm flying wedge, right? So here, respectively, is Tiger at P3 with the Butch, Haney, and Foley swings.
Did Tiger have any more rotation with Haney than he did with Harmon? It appears, not. This makes sense if you read my post here: http://www.brianmanzella.com/golfin...hould-have-done-after-round-3.html#post223586
Isn't this a position he abhorred and worked to change with Butch and Hank?
He junked it for a reason and yet he's close to that position with Foley now.
Tiger's got a super aggressive move during the transition, what the instructors here term a "tug". How is getting steep in the backswing with a stronger grip and "the carry" going to help him avoid pulls, pull hooks, and struggle with hitting a variety of iron shots with proper distance? Sure, he can get away with it at a non-major where he can smoke the driver without worrying as much about having to position the tee-shot for an approach into the green, but what else? The guy hits the ball solid, like Kevin said, really hard and low. And, what?
What was wrong with this swing?
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/GekrFqrsSPE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
I don't see him getting "under the sweetspot" or swinging out too far to the right, common refrains for the guys that are big-time Haney detractors. Okay, that's his "Haney swing" in slow motion. How about at regular speed?
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/YmLT22QJer8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Holy crap! That looks unbelievably well-balanced and rhythmic! Well, he's at the range, not a fair comparison. Plus Hank had him over rotating the left arm flying wedge, right? So here, respectively, is Tiger at P3 with the Butch, Haney, and Foley swings.
Did Tiger have any more rotation with Haney than he did with Harmon? It appears, not. This makes sense if you read my post here: http://www.brianmanzella.com/golfin...hould-have-done-after-round-3.html#post223586
Isn't this a position he abhorred and worked to change with Butch and Hank?
He junked it for a reason and yet he's close to that position with Foley now.
Tiger's got a super aggressive move during the transition, what the instructors here term a "tug". How is getting steep in the backswing with a stronger grip and "the carry" going to help him avoid pulls, pull hooks, and struggle with hitting a variety of iron shots with proper distance? Sure, he can get away with it at a non-major where he can smoke the driver without worrying as much about having to position the tee-shot for an approach into the green, but what else? The guy hits the ball solid, like Kevin said, really hard and low. And, what?
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Dariusz J.
New member
His stance always sucked and still sucks. He's one of the last pros I would think to be able to make a setup-dependent motion free of conscious thoughts and able to use ground forces correctly. Even Mickelson looks as a guy free of conscious thoughts with his ............ swing and it serves him well.
Where's McIllroy ? and Garcia ? with their "pretty" swings ?
Cheers
Where's McIllroy ? and Garcia ? with their "pretty" swings ?
Cheers
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You can't be serious that Haney ruined tiger. Tiger never really did exactly what Hank wanted him to do. He always looked more Golfing Machine swing plane pointing at the target line. If Haney absolutely ruined him, what is Foley accomplishing?
If he is going to play a hard cut with Foley off the tee, then Augusta may not be the best major for Tiger anymore.
Jared Willerson
Super Moderator
Early on with Haney was fine. It wasn't until he went full Haney did I think he was making the wrong decision. Tiger 00-02 was the best and that is what Foley is trying to get back to with some modification to de stress the knee.
Foley asked Tiger straight up why he changed the 00-02 motion.
Other than O'Meara Haney has a hard time keeping his players going. Note the Keuhne clan and Tiger as examples. They are fine with him initially then suddenly can't hit it straight especially off the tee. That HAS to be some Haneys doing with his parallel planes nonsense.
Foley asked Tiger straight up why he changed the 00-02 motion.
Other than O'Meara Haney has a hard time keeping his players going. Note the Keuhne clan and Tiger as examples. They are fine with him initially then suddenly can't hit it straight especially off the tee. That HAS to be some Haneys doing with his parallel planes nonsense.
lia41985
New member
Jared,
Full Haney? Whatever that means. Here's Tiger's swing from the 2009 President's Cup, very close to the end of the "Haney Era". What's wrong with it? Where's the evidence of swing deterioration?
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/nc762GxvLNk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
I couldn't care less what Sean asked Tiger about going away from the 2000-2002 swing--the fact is, part of that swing incorporated what Hank showed Tiger about getting laid off at the top. Tiger won every season from 2005 until 2009 until Hank quit in 2010. You haven' substantiated what you've said at all.
Full Haney? Whatever that means. Here's Tiger's swing from the 2009 President's Cup, very close to the end of the "Haney Era". What's wrong with it? Where's the evidence of swing deterioration?
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/nc762GxvLNk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
I couldn't care less what Sean asked Tiger about going away from the 2000-2002 swing--the fact is, part of that swing incorporated what Hank showed Tiger about getting laid off at the top. Tiger won every season from 2005 until 2009 until Hank quit in 2010. You haven' substantiated what you've said at all.
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Dariusz J.
New member
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
Wow, lot of hate in this post. Couple things:
1) Tiger won in spite of Haney not because of him; he's just that talented. Sorry but that's the truth.
2) I didn't even know that Tiger said basically what i said; excuse me for working 80 hours a week and only catching a couple hours via DVR at like 2am. Shocking though that we said the same thing though isn't it? (Also i don't care if you don't believe me)
3) For whoever was complaining why it's convenient excuse to use for the Masters and why it didn't come up at Bay Hill isn't that hard to understand; Bay Hill isn't the Masters! You've never had something "click" for you one week and not the next? You don't think that his new swing ideas are under more pressure at the freaking masters?
I mean come on, all you have to do is watch the darn swings while he is in a tournament. Range Tiger is no where = to On Course Tiger and he admits that himself and for whoever has seen him on the range can attest to that. I watch the swings, i see the moves he is making trying to adjust my eye for some parallax because of the camera and then make my comments.
1) Tiger won in spite of Haney not because of him; he's just that talented. Sorry but that's the truth.
2) I didn't even know that Tiger said basically what i said; excuse me for working 80 hours a week and only catching a couple hours via DVR at like 2am. Shocking though that we said the same thing though isn't it? (Also i don't care if you don't believe me)
3) For whoever was complaining why it's convenient excuse to use for the Masters and why it didn't come up at Bay Hill isn't that hard to understand; Bay Hill isn't the Masters! You've never had something "click" for you one week and not the next? You don't think that his new swing ideas are under more pressure at the freaking masters?
I mean come on, all you have to do is watch the darn swings while he is in a tournament. Range Tiger is no where = to On Course Tiger and he admits that himself and for whoever has seen him on the range can attest to that. I watch the swings, i see the moves he is making trying to adjust my eye for some parallax because of the camera and then make my comments.
Dariusz J.
New member
LMAO: if we hate the coach, pupil wins because he's talented; if we love the coach, pupil wins thanks to him. ROFL. Stop spreading ..............., noone buys it any more. Only one ........ guy who buys it is Woods. The guy pretended to be stronger than Nicklaus, even reaching Hogan's level...and ended as average ............ guided by ........
That's life.
Cheers
That's life.
Cheers
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