Tiger's Grip

[Kevin Shields]

For those of you who are trying a neutral grip, check out (especially if you have TIVO) the slo mo (there are plenty of them) shots of Tiger's swing. He's employed a much weaker grip than in the past, obviously. Pause the TV right before impact. His left wrist is damn near facing the ground. His rehearsals are similar, then he practices keeping his wrists uncocked long into the follow thru.

My point? It is very, very difficult IMO. I've read alot of posts from people who are struggling with twistaways and forearm roll and hooks.

Brian can confirm or correct me, but I think if you want to swing this way, you had better be a certain body type. There is no way Tiger could have changed his swing to be like this in '99. He wasn't strong enough.

Brian's answer to the strong grip and lag question was fabulous. However, Tiger loads the shaft as hard as anyone yet he has the strength and coordination to square it up without a flip. Absolutely amazing.

 

[tank]

I don't know enough to say whether it is a strength issue or not, so you may be right.

However, I am plenty strong, and if I screw up my take-away by over rolling the left (lead) arm or over cocking the right wrist, it makes it a lot more difficult to achieve the impact alignments you mentioned above.
So my guess is that it has more to do with the correct take-away.

 

[2mongoose]

Tiger is non-human!

One thing I've always been fascinated by is grip type, release and how it affects impact. Here's a good DTL shot of Tiger hitting a short iron. I'm no expert, but this seems like the text book definition of a "snap" release.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp1BvVQbUTQ

Here are some still's from V1:

Some things that stand out in this sequence for me are (pics #'s read from left to right/top to bottom):

1) Tiger's left hand hasn't turned off the plane much in pic 1 as the clubhead begins to overtake his hands.

2) How Tiger's left hand gets from pic 1 to pic 3 (impact) back to vertical that quickly is amazing.

3) How in the hell he keeps the clubface back on plane in pics 5 and 6 is crazy. I over cook it big time in this spot and my clubface ends up horizontal to the ground. Maybe my arms are going too much around and not enough up?

 

[golfbulldog]

Great photos

Other interesting points are...in no particular order...open questions to anyone...

Do you think that the right and/or left wrist uncocks between image 1 and 3?

Number 3 has pretty square shoulders just prior to impact-no? Is that just because it is a short iron?

Nice footwork! Rolls onto left insteo then toe.

 

[pecky987]

Other interesting points are...in no particular order...open questions to anyone...

Do you think that the right and/or left wrist uncocks between image 1 and 3?

Number 3 has pretty square shoulders just prior to impact-no? Is that just because it is a short iron?
Nice footwork! Rolls onto left insteo then toe.

we talked about this at length a while ago. i dont know if he is still doin it, but that cant be preferable

 

[golfbulldog]

we talked about this at length a while ago. i dont know if he is still doin it, but that cant be preferable

Depends what you are trying to do...you can't be so absolute.

Following Manzella's Law...(degrees of axis tilt= degrees of open shoulders)...then you would expect it to be most prominent in Driver.

 

[pecky987]

Depends what you are trying to do...you can't be so absolute.

Following Manzella's Law...(degrees of axis tilt= degrees of open shoulders)...then you would expect it to be most prominent in Driver.

yes but square shoulders would suggest nearly no axis tilt.

no

 

[tongzilla]

yes but square shoulders would suggest nearly no axis tilt.

no

shoulders are open.

look at the direction of ball flight.

 

[thefuture37]

be careful looking too closely at that particular swing. it looks like he was trying to hit a draw and didnt get it moving at all. at least you can see thats not his normal finish position.

 

[2mongoose]

Other interesting points are...in no particular order...open questions to anyone...

Do you think that the right and/or left wrist uncocks between image 1 and 3?

Number 3 has pretty square shoulders just prior to impact-no? Is that just because it is a short iron?

Nice footwork! Rolls onto left insteo then toe.

I'm fairly certain pic 1 is the release point. I went frame by frame in V1 and this is the exact point where from this view his hands "appear" to stop moving down and start going more forward. I think his left wrist is really close to level here.

The youtube/still pics are somewhat misleading. The video wasn't exactly DTL, hence why he "looks" square to the target line.

 

[pecky987]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp1BvVQbUTQ&feature=related

i say again, we went through this a while ago. he blocked this shot, telling me he wasnt aiming ther, hence the whip of his arms in the finish. maybe he was trying to draw a wedge.

anyway, looks to me he aimed at the hole, got his shoulders square to target line at impact, and hits a push.

now before anyone says 'o the manzella rule! shoulders not open enough, thats why he pushed it!'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2kO0pgNPG0

again his shoulders are square to where the ball starts

'the manzella rule! hes hitting a stinger so less tilt = less open shoulders!'
ok thats the case, i agree. but, going by the manzella rule, perfectly square shoulders would mean no tilt. brian will be the first to say you cant hit the ball well enough to win a major with 0 tilt thru impact.

i say again. i dont know if hes still doing this. i havnt seen a good DTL slo-mo recently of him. as far as i can tell, in these videos, he must be swining his left arm of his chest very early and with alot of forearm rotation. i have seen pictures of tiger past follow-through with a flat left wrist, telling me he has really rolled his left arm to square the face up. and he doesnt manage it all the time. we know he struggles with the right side of the course.

 

[golfbulldog]

shoulders are open.

look at the direction of ball flight.

but early ballflight says more about clubface and less about plane line - no?

still looks like his shoulders are parallel to his stance line...

Just comments...not trying to prove anything so nobody take it all too seriously!

Anybody have any comment about uncocking... do you see any accumulator release between pics 1 and 3 OTHER than acc.3?

ie. is this what a sequenced release looks like? acc. 2 has released to level...then acc 3 release....?? maybe some overlap ?

 

[Kevin Shields]

His right shoulder doesnt have to be down and out as much with a wedge. Alot of great players aren't that open with shorter clubs. And I remember that shot. He was trying to sweep a draw in there.