To all the teachers

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Kevin Shields

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Although I'm having the best year ever teaching......thank you Brian:cool: , there is a particular pattern i continue to have the damndest time with. It's epidemic at my club and I'm sure at every one else's. I just can't seem to get very far with it.

Here it is in a nutshell.
Middle age woman (40-60)
weak left hand (palmy)
Body lift on backswing
Either too much wrist set or elbow fold making swing very long
Immediate, and i mean immediate, throwaway from the top
head goes down and chest faces the ball at impact
Arms separate and wing out at and past impact
Hits 6 inches behind or tops it on the upswing
Back of left hand faces the sky forever

It's like all these ladies learned the same way. If i could do better with these people my life would be alot easier. If any of you fix it guys have had any success with a similar student PLEASE tell me how. Thanks in advance
 
P

puttmad

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doubled,
I'm not a teacher as such, but have noticed many of the pattern you describe....

Many women tend to have "armsy" swings..their focus seems to be on lifting the club as early as possible, with their arms, hence the over folded elbow.. and the same coming down..the arm pass the body much too soon (fats/tops)..
Perhaps they could do with a few minutes of the old "one piece takeaway?".....and maintaining the "7" position (relationship of the left arm and shoulderline at the top) on the way down....this is easily understood initially when done standing upright.....and you can point out when they do it that they are not moving backwards or forwards on the back or foreward swing (lifting or head going down as you described)... this should get them to lift the club with their shoulders, rather than their arms...
Finally making sure they "swing left" enough to finish their swing..

Just a thought..:)
 
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birdie_man

birdie_man

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Ehehehehe good description DD............I think I can see it...........

Either too much wrist set or elbow fold making swing very long
Click to expand...

Do you allude to 2 variations??

i.e. Big ol bent left wrist or big ol crazily arched left wrist with the elbows almost touching.......?
 
T

twitch127

New
Here it is in a nutshell.
Middle age woman (40-60)
weak left hand (palmy)
Body lift on backswing
Either too much wrist set or elbow fold making swing very long
Immediate, and i mean immediate, throwaway from the top
head goes down and chest faces the ball at impact
Arms separate and wing out at and past impact
Hits 6 inches behind or tops it on the upswing
Back of left hand faces the sky forever
Click to expand...

It is an epidemic but not through choice. These problems/compensations occur because of physiological factors - They are weak and usually have large breasts that get in the way. Early wrist (or sweep loading) makes the club lighter for them to load - try holding a 5 iron out parallel to the ground - it's damn heavy - one-piece takeway is disasterous with the majority beacuse they aren't strong enough, unless you come across a Babe Zahrius type. Throwaway from the top - get them to start their transition from ground up and then the throwaway will turn into a nice sweep release. I like to set them up - left arm across chest (if this closes shoulders so be it) right foot inside the left and 45 degrees open from target line - this way they can take the club away without it running into the two puppy dogs above :) and the right hip can carry and load the club. Turned left hand grip matches nicely with sweep loading. Single or Double Shift - Elbow to turned shoulder and down turned shoulder or turning shoulder will also match better with sweep release. Play around with aiming point. Whatever pattern you use they have to use their dominant body part - their trunk, trying to get them to trace plane lines is a waste of time - just try and get them to stress the shaft some how - through their pivot - Kinetic chain will be the difference
 
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Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
twitch127 said:
It is an epidemic but not through choice. These problems/compensations occur because of physiological factors - They are weak and usually have large breasts that get in the way. Early wrist (or sweep loading) makes the club lighter for them to load - try holding a 5 iron out parallel to the ground - it's damn heavy - one-piece takeway is disasterous with the majority beacuse they aren't strong enough, unless you come across a Babe Zahrius type. Throwaway from the top - get them to start their transition from ground up and then the throwaway will turn into a nice sweep release. I like to set them up - left arm across chest (if this closes shoulders so be it) right foot inside the left and 45 degrees open from target line - this way they can take the club away without it running into the two puppy dogs above :) and the right hip can carry and load the club. Turned left hand grip matches nicely with sweep loading. Single or Double Shift - Elbow to turned shoulder and down turned shoulder or turning shoulder will also match better with sweep release. Play around with aiming point. Whatever pattern you use they have to use their dominant body part - their trunk, trying to get them to trace plane lines is a waste of time - just try and get them to stress the shaft some how - through their pivot - Kinetic chain will be the difference
Click to expand...

Twitch....any stock drills. Ive done line drill, some aiming point. Conceptually ive told them they need to hinge better and extend arms past the ball. Maybe tried to get them the soft draw "one last point" elbow fold.
 
cmartingolf

cmartingolf

New
doubled said:
Although I'm having the best year ever teaching......thank you Brian:cool: , there is a particular pattern i continue to have the damndest time with. It's epidemic at my club and I'm sure at every one else's. I just can't seem to get very far with it.

Here it is in a nutshell.
Middle age woman (40-60)
weak left hand (palmy)
Body lift on backswing
Either too much wrist set or elbow fold making swing very long
Immediate, and i mean immediate, throwaway from the top
head goes down and chest faces the ball at impact
Arms separate and wing out at and past impact
Hits 6 inches behind or tops it on the upswing
Back of left hand faces the sky forever

It's like all these ladies learned the same way. If i could do better with these people my life would be alot easier. If any of you fix it guys have had any success with a similar student PLEASE tell me how. Thanks in advance
Click to expand...

Hi Kevin,

I hear ya loud and clear.

IMO,

I think they all look the same because they've taken their first bit of instruction from their 14 handicap husband/boyfriend who breaks 80 once a year from the "flower pots" in a two-man select drive better ball. It's amazing how even good scorers (scratch and almost scratch) have little clue how to help someone learn the game?

"Head down, follow through, down the line" crap. Isn't that the "answer" for all bad shots????

After fixing the palmy left hand (if they let you), a la the B-man's grip "Texas Long Horn" stuff (the best description I've ever seen in my too many years) and happy to say I copy the hell out of that bit of building blocks among other things (Thanks B). I try and teach them about the "around-ness" of the swing and how a swing only touches the target line for an instant. I use the tetherball idea as most have played that game as a kid.

A gal with this issue will make quick strides on her own if she hits a bunch of balls off of a fairly steep sidehill lie (ball above her feet - knee high). She will quickly feel (after you point it out) forearm rotation and you might toss in PP3 (I don't say PP3 or they look at me like I'm nuts) going from feeling behind the shaft at address to under on the backswing to on top of shaft on the through swing. No chicken dinners there.

Of course they all want to help whitey off the ground, but that's another chapter of the story...
 
D

Deadly_Scope

New
doubled said:
Although I'm having the best year ever teaching......thank you Brian:cool: , there is a particular pattern i continue to have the damndest time with. It's epidemic at my club and I'm sure at every one else's. I just can't seem to get very far with it.

Here it is in a nutshell.
Middle age woman (40-60)
weak left hand (palmy)
Body lift on backswing
Either too much wrist set or elbow fold making swing very long
Immediate, and i mean immediate, throwaway from the top
head goes down and chest faces the ball at impact
Arms separate and wing out at and past impact
Hits 6 inches behind or tops it on the upswing
Back of left hand faces the sky forever

It's like all these ladies learned the same way. If i could do better with these people my life would be alot easier. If any of you fix it guys have had any success with a similar student PLEASE tell me how. Thanks in advance
Click to expand...

I think really with woman of this age are not going to get that much better.

It is essential if you want them to come back that you keep the lesson really light, theoretically simple as possible with an easy and laid back manner where everything you present is easily within their reach.

You could do a myriad of things here - Probably the best lesson for them would just be to get the left hand grip more correct and learn to take a lil divot - Think some of that other stuff would just disappear.

One person said that someone might not be willing to change their grip but there is many ways around that.

Here is two ways of presenting that...

One - you say - your grip is really faulty lets change it... this can only trigger the ego into revolting against it.

Two - you wait till the pupil hits a good shot for them and then you say - "you know what I really liked about that shot is that you gripped the club more under the heel pad and it really made the way your hands worked in the swing look really elegant" - immediately this triggers and associates your direction with a positive and makes them extremely likely to follow your direction - even though your lying out your a$$ and she didn't do anything different than before.
 
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dale47

dale47

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How about this...... have them swing half way back then to a full follow thru. It should Force the body to become involved.
 
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